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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder what planet the 'ban Trump from the UK' people are living on

492 replies

roseshippy · 31/01/2017 15:32

Yes I understand that he's a sexist, racist, whatever-else-ist.

But he evidently thinks fondly of the UK, we are currently in the process of saying 'fuck off' to mainland Europe, so we will be a small, friendless island in the North Sea in need of some help.

AIBU to think that we need to suffer a bit of schmoozing from dodgy foreign leaders as part of post-Brexit Britain? (Actually didn't we already schmooze dodgy foreign leaders long before Brexit?)

And in reality Trump is rather less dodgy than the average world leader, if we exclude the EU, as we have done

What are the other choices?

OP posts:
birdybirdywoofwoof · 31/01/2017 18:00

You assumed we didn't understand just because we were interested in the numbers being in the millions?

Ah well.

DJBaggySmalls · 31/01/2017 18:02

He's easily influenced because he is ignorant of politics and cause and effect. Its just as easy for people to talk him back round to his original position.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/01/2017 18:06

We welcomed the Chinese prime minister

Let's not forget Mugabe and Idi Armin amongst others.

TheElementsSong · 31/01/2017 18:07

Very well put ARum

Megatherium · 31/01/2017 18:13

The arrogance of people on this thread in thinking that Trump or the Queen will take any notice is astounding

It's considerably more arrogant to say that people should be prevented from expressing their opinion, whether through signing petitions or any other means.

Pagwatch · 31/01/2017 18:25

The idea that if you object to a state visit for Trump, if you are bothered by his speedy promotion of Bannen, his connection with the dodgiest elements of the far right and his sacking of the Attorney General for applying the law, your view is invalid unless you objected to every other visit by China or Russia or whoever is nonsense really though isn't it?

Unless we regularly talk about those other nations as being one of our closest allies and part of a special relationship, it's not the same at all.

Apart from anything else May rushing over there looks about as desperate and needy as it's possible to be which is hardly step one in the negotiators handbook is it.

I think it's probably much easier to say 'oh but Putin met the Queen' then say 'well yes, he does seem to be racist and sexist and is driving a horse and cart through the constitution but , you know, we are economically fucked unless we trade with someone. Beggars can't be choosers and all that.

space83 · 31/01/2017 18:26

@throwingpebbles I copied and pasted your exact words so as to avoid any misunderstandings. But hey ho.

BadKnee · 31/01/2017 18:28

I actually agree that there is a lot of virtue signalling and bandwaggoning going on. I abhor Trump but he has been elected and we are not at war with the US. We therefore continue diplomatic and political relations.

The people can protest of course. And should.

Megatherium · 31/01/2017 18:31

So what if he has been elected and all the rest of it? Why does that mean we have to rush to invite him on a state visit? We haven't in the past, and surely Trump is someone we should in particular not be rushing to invite. The chances are he'll be impeached so we'll have to do it all over again with his successor.

isadoradancing123 · 31/01/2017 18:31

We have had some very very dodgy African leaders and their shopaholic wives, in state visits. Trump is the elected president, so get over it. Maybe , just maybe, he will keep America safe!

DJBaggySmalls · 31/01/2017 18:33

A man overtly playing Nice Guy is virtue signalling, someone saying 'me too' isnt.

throwingpebbles · 31/01/2017 18:35

@space83 then either you are a bit dim or you are wilfully misunderstanding me. My words clearly allowed for exceptions to the general observation.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 31/01/2017 18:35

Which Americans do you think he will keep safe, isadora?

SinglePringle · 31/01/2017 18:54

Whether the petition is a success or not is almost irrelevant. It exists in its own right - it cannot be ignored and Trump will be aware of its existence. At the very least, he'll know that over a million people find him abhorrent.

That's a start and worth a signature.

throwingpebbles · 31/01/2017 18:54

Totally agree pagwatch

isadoradancing123 · 31/01/2017 18:58

America, as a whole if immigration is tightened and vetted

PrettyBotanicals · 31/01/2017 19:03

ARum
I do see the points you made. And I don't doubt your sincerity.

I think I am just very bewildered by the extraordinary outpourings of terror and grief and, yes I'm sorry, hysteria, about the temporary suspension of travel rights for people who hold passports, may leave home alone and still have the choice to travel to pretty much any other country.

I believe there are women whose human rights have been abused or non-existent their whole lives who would benefit and be so grateful for even a tenth of the airspace and outcry we are currently experiencing.

That's all.

53rdAndBird · 31/01/2017 19:09

I believe there are women whose human rights have been abused or non-existent their whole lives who would benefit and be so grateful for even a tenth of the airspace and outcry we are currently experiencing.

You know that 'refugees' and 'women whose human rights have been abused' are not separate categories, right? There's a pretty hefty degree of overlap...

ARumWithAView · 31/01/2017 19:12

isadora, America already has an extremely tight and well-vetted immigration system, for everything for the simplest limited-term tourist B-visa to the long process of qualifying for refugee resettlement. At every level, immigration procedures are time-consuming and detail-oriented. Absolutely nobody is getting waved through.

user1471596238 · 31/01/2017 19:15

The petition wasn't about banning Trump from the UK, it was a request that he wasn't given the trappings of a state visit.

CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger · 31/01/2017 19:18

Sorry, haven't RTFT, so maybe this has already been mentioned, but there is more to this planet than EU and the US, maybe we should have a chat with some of the other countries that manage to do pretty well without either?

JamieXeed74 · 31/01/2017 19:25

It looks like a lot of people didn't really know what they were signing when they put their name to the petition. On this thread alone I have read a dozen different reasons. Remember it was advertised on several news channels for 48 hours, which drove traffic to it en mass.

If we are to talk about state visits, it is entirely sensible to consider who we have invited before, and Trump is by no means ranked near the bottom. So we have to conclude that people are kicking up a fuss for other reasons. Looking deeper it seems remainers have jumped on the bandwagon in the hopes that they can stoke fear of Trump and push us back towards the EU.

TM has invited Trump here so early because we are doing something unique, Brexit. America is our biggest trade partner and a massive bargaining chip against the EU in negotiations. So protesters need to take a step back ,take a deep breath and think about it. We are doing a deal with America and its people. Trump might be the catalyst for it but its the American people who we will be trading with, Trump will be gone in 4/8 years. This is not a dictator he is the person that was democratically voted into the position.

Yes, he will put America first but likewise TM will put the UK first. We will both be winners, its not winner takes all.

Just think in a few months Marine Le Pen could be President of France and she will put Trump in the shade.

ARumWithAView · 31/01/2017 19:33

I think I am just very bewildered by the extraordinary outpourings of terror and grief and, yes I'm sorry, hysteria, about the temporary suspension of travel rights for people who hold passports, may leave home alone and still have the choice to travel to pretty much any other country.

If there were only a few people complaining about this, it would be a 'shrill minority' or 'small group of trouble-makers'.

If there are millions, it's a bandwagon, a brigade, hysteria and an outpouring.

I'm glad people are speaking out. This is batshit. The new immigration ruling means that anyone who holds one of the prohibited passports and does not have American citizenship is either landlocked in the US (knowing that, if they leave, there's no guarantee they can return) or locked out of the country.

In real terms, this is affecting thousands of people in the US on student or employent visas; people who have gone through the lengthly, expensive visa process, done absolutely nothing wrong, but who now must effectively abandon their studies/employment if they want to leave the US for any reason - to visit their family, take a vacation, attend a conference. This Nature article gives a few personal examples of how this is affecting the academic community:

www.nature.com/news/meet-the-scientists-affected-by-trump-s-immigration-ban-1.21389?WT.mc_id=FBK_NatureNews

... and many large corporations, such as Google, were obliged to urgently recall their staff from overseas business trips and secondments when the news broke.

Arguably worse is the constant contradictory information as to whether the ban includes US green-card holders who hold the prohibited passports. A green-card holder is a legal permanent resident of the US. (After 5 years, IIRC, you can apply for citizenship.) These are people whose permanent lives are based in the US; who have families, houses, jobs. Who have paid taxes for years. Who have, again, spent time and money obtaining legal status and adhering to its terms. As of Friday, anyone caught overseas was in doubt whether they would even be allowed on a plane home; over the weekend, many people were denied boarding, and others were let in on a case-by-case basis.

It's unprecedented. These are not a few tourists: these are people who live legally in the US, and it's completely inappropriate to mitigate this with the reminder that they can travel to 'pretty much any other country' or that maybe they'll be allowed back in a few months, or if they chance it at the airport. Their rights are being restricted in their legal home. The only thing more extreme than this would be banning citizens.

2017willbeawesome · 31/01/2017 19:35

I'd rather he didn't come at all, but as POTUS he gets to visit. Why did I sign to say no to State Visit, a whole host of reasons from showing solidarity to our American friends who didn't vote for him (he lost the popular vote by 3 million) to despising the sexist racist extremism that comes straight from his mouth that then gets dubbed "alternative facts"... To the sheer cost, we don't have the money, the idea of spending that sort of money on that abhorrent man to give him all the bells & whistles for the sake of a trade deal, that going by his track history will a) not happen, b) be scaled down to a pathetic level (the X thousand of jobs in Scotland that turned into a couple of hundred in exchange for the destruction of the environment) c) give him far too much power in our country, d) all of the above.

For all of those reasons and more I don't want my country to sell out. So yes I'm not one for demonstrating (more likely to go on a WI day trip to a National Trust site, I throw an annual party on the Queens birthday and run village fetes in my spare time), but this has all gone too far so if he comes I will be getting on a train to the city to demonstrate. I'll get slated by the why don't you demonstrate for X, y, z brigade & then by the alt right for being a snowflake who has been brainwashed by liberalism. I'm neither of those things, and shouting them louder won't change anything. I'm terrified of the far right and that it is becoming normalised to hate, I can't fathom how that is being unreasonable.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 31/01/2017 19:36

Jamie, the whole world knows, how very desperate we are to have trade deals with the US. It's not some secret.
And sadly nothing in the petition is going to change the fact that we are about to be (royally) shafted.
We will both be winners bigly winners, we're doing so great.