to wonder what planet the 'ban Trump from the UK' people are living on

[roseshippy]

Yes I understand that he's a sexist, racist, whatever-else-ist.

But he evidently thinks fondly of the UK, we are currently in the process of saying 'fuck off' to mainland Europe, so we will be a small, friendless island in the North Sea in need of some help.

AIBU to think that we need to suffer a bit of schmoozing from dodgy foreign leaders as part of post-Brexit Britain? (Actually didn't we already schmooze dodgy foreign leaders long before Brexit?)

And in reality Trump is rather less dodgy than the average world leader, if we exclude the EU, as we have done

What are the other choices?

Well 100,000 is considerably fewer than 1.7 million isn't it?- Sorry I assumed you were aware that you only need 100,000 for it to be debated.

Oh dear - Lost

Do you honestly think that using a government website set up to give the citizens of the UK a 'voice' (albeit nothing more than lip service to quiet the masses) is arrongant? Really?

If you think those of us that signed are arrogant what characteristic must you afford to the likes of Trump? I'm interested to know...

I'm glad that the counter petition has reached 100,000 because I'd quite like to hear MPs articulate why they think president trump is so great.

"To be honest roseshippy I'm wondering what planet people like you live on that you don't realise the petition is to stop a state visit.
"

I didn't mention a petition? The leader of the Labour party has in fact called for a ban on Trump coming to the UK.

I do however feel that given that May has already stated publicly that it's a state visit, an official pronouncement to Trump in effect that 'sorry you're uninvited from my birthday party' is childish and destructive.

We welcomed the Chinese prime minister ..... their human rights records etc etc are far worse than trump!

People are jumping on the band wagon, believing the hype in the media .. it's not quite as big a circus as some believe ....

And that doesn't make it right re the Chinese

Although at least the Chinese are trying when it comes to climate change.

And Theresa May wants rid of human rights anyway

So Cream, do provide evidence that it isn't as big a circus as the media claim?

I'm a pragmatist.

I think what matters is whether his state visit or lack thereof would strengthen or weaken the hand of the decent people who are planning for something better to replace him (ie impeachment).

I don't think he is capable of embarrassing the Queen and frankly don't care. I care about getting rid of him without a descent into martial law and a new President who is no-worse-than-George-W-Bush or better.

I'm sorry semi, what made you think they didn't understand the process?

roseshippy you had 3 pages of comments about the petition. It looks like you waited for the first sarky comment to post that.

"I don't recall the head/president/whatever of Saudi Arabia getting a state visit"

You know it wouldn't be hard to Google that.

1967: King Faisal
1981: King Khalid
1987: King Fahd
2007: King Abdullah

She also received Mugabe, Suharto, Kenneth Kaunda, Hastings Banda, and other despots.

"roseshippy you had 3 pages of comments about the petition. It looks like you waited for the first sarky comment to post that."

i was cooking?

Linger - I personally would enjoy being a fly on the wall at that meeting - I'm no royalist but I think Her Maj may just provide a beautifully cutting remark in the typical style of us Brits that would completely fly over the tangerine's 'Flock Of Seaguls' hairstyle.

So the last one was 10 years ago

And again, two wrongs don't make a right!

For goodness sake.

Risehippy - the hypocrisy must go on for evermore, then?

In case anyone's wondering - there was a massive fuss made when one of the royals - prince Charles was it? - met up with one of the Saudi royals. Of course, the protests might not have made the headlines in most (any?) of the papers but that didn't mean they didn't happen.
But when it comes down to it, as nasty as the Saudi rulers are, their influence on the world stage is somewhat smaller than that of the US, which is of course, the biggest, bestest, most amazing, country in the whole world. Fact.

PrettyBotanicals, your post chiding people for being too strident is bizarre. The Trump campaign exemplified and profited from every single behaviour you criticize.

'Calm rational exposes' were helpless in the face repetitive buzzwords and shouts of FAKE NEWS, LOCK HER UP, BUILD THE WALL.
Expert opinion (scientists on climate change, for one example) was waved aside as negative or dull.
Facts were ignored, even obviously verifiable ones (on things as petty as crowd size).
Profane and insulting language came not just from Trump supporters, but directly from Trump himself.
In national debates and countless interviews, Trump repeatedly interrupted or talked over people, showing zero attempt to listen.
Binary positions? Well, either you want to make America great again, or you're a traitor.
Childish invective? Epitomised by Trump's tweets.
Playground insults on social media, same.
Defriending those with opposing views? Not just defend: shut them down. Place gags on government agencies. Attempt to intimidate the media. Constantly threaten lawsuits.

The captivating idea that the right wing is a lone, unpopular voice with the personal strength to hold 'unfashionable' views is what's given millions of people the self-righteous energy and fury to vent racism, misogyny, and so many other forms of hate.

The political dialogue has changed. Attempting to counter Trumpism in a suitably thoughtful, measured fashion is an invitated to be utterly ignored.

I think the way to address concerns is the diplomatic way.

Absolutely! And State Visits are a diplomatic tool which we object to the UK government using at this time.

I'm sorry semi, what made you think they didn't understand the process? - The comparison of figures makes it sound like they thought it was a kind of poll, when it comes to parliamentary debate you only need 100,000 signatures so the actual figures are irrelevant regarding that - which is what my initial comment was about.

I think the way to address concerns is the diplomatic way

That's the role of politicians. Diplomacy.

The role of the populace is not to sit quietly while our great leaders do the talking. We live in a democracy and protest about what we like.

What I mean re the other debate is I want MPs to articulate why we should permit a state visit.

to wonder what planet the 'ban Trump from the UK' politicians are living on
FTFY.

it has been observed in America that Theresa May got Trump to endorse NATO in the space of their joint press conference. It is not clear how snubbing him will help influence him. And he does seem easily influenced.