to wonder what planet the 'ban Trump from the UK' people are living on

[roseshippy]

Yes I understand that he's a sexist, racist, whatever-else-ist.

But he evidently thinks fondly of the UK, we are currently in the process of saying 'fuck off' to mainland Europe, so we will be a small, friendless island in the North Sea in need of some help.

AIBU to think that we need to suffer a bit of schmoozing from dodgy foreign leaders as part of post-Brexit Britain? (Actually didn't we already schmooze dodgy foreign leaders long before Brexit?)

And in reality Trump is rather less dodgy than the average world leader, if we exclude the EU, as we have done

What are the other choices?

A trade deal with the US will likely mean selling off the NHS, and relaxing our food standards so they can sell us health insurance and flood our supermarkets with food with all sorts of crap in it that the EU currently protects us from. We may be forced to accept agreements that harm the environment also.

US food industry standards are really low compared to ours (see image).

We're not coming to come out if this deal well. America screws other countries.

Why would we want that?

May should not be cosying up to a new President who could well be impeached soon, and who - along with his inner circle of not job right wing / racist advisors - shows worrying signs of trying to turn the US into a fascist dictatorship. Why on earth would we want to be associated with that?

Objecting to someone who has done the sort of vile things that Trump has done and is doing, and who has the power (and the temperament) to start a war =/= "silly hysteria".

It's far sillier - and far nastier - to think it's all just fine. If you aren't reacting, I'd have to wonder why not.

I don't recall the head/president/whatever of Saudi Arabia getting a state visit.

It's worth reading up on history leading up to the world wars.

We are going down a terrible dangerous path. Brexit and kissing trump's ass.

This country will look very different in a few years time.

Brexit alone will fuck our economy over given the ineptitude of the government in charge.

Anyone who thinks it will all be fine, is quite simply burying their heads in the sand or is a little bit silly.

Silly hysteria? You do realise, don't you, that Trump's actions over the last few days - particularly his withdrawal of funding for reproductive health facilities that offer abortions - will result in deaths? Or is it silly and hysterical to object to women and girls dying?

PrettyBotanicals - hands up, you are correct. I don't do enough to help women in other places. I admire and support those who do. I can see and understand why you are not impressed by my attitude and inconsistencies.

But, that said, I do care about the world.

Personally, I do not think the cause of women anywhere will be helped if the rights of women in the USA go backwards. I do not think the cause of LGBT people anywhere will be helped if the rights of LGBT people in the USA go backwards. I do not think the cause of Muslim people anywhere will be helped if the rights of Muslim people in the USA go backwards. This is why I abhor what I see of Trump so far and protest it and not other things.

I am a limited person with limited resources. This is what I can manage. I recognise it is not enough but I still think it is better than doing nothing.

No You are not allowed to talk about girls dying from abortion unless you can show you protested/demonstrated about cologne, fgm, boko haram, Rotherham and male suicide.
otherwise you are jumping on a band wagon.

Aside from rumors, what has Trump as president, actually done that is legally corrupt?

Pretty sure that sexual assault is unlawful. I know he hasn't been convicted in a court of law, but given that he boasted that he's done it....

Interesting that the map for the petition to prevent a State visit shows that most of the petitioners seem to be concentrated in London and Cambridgeshire.

Hmmmm.

Petition to allow is at 140k now so will also be debated.

The arrogance of people on this thread in thinking that Trump or the Queen will take any notice is astounding.

I assume May would not have extended the invitation without permission from Her Maj.

Aside from rumours

Oh dear. Do you think he's innocent? That the big bad media have been mean to poor little Trump

He's a very very rich man who can get away with a lot. And has. He isn't even that good a business man - he hardly worked his way up from nothing. He was born into money.

America has a huge influence on the rest of the world, and we have a "special relationship" apparrently.

If the US is becoming a fascist state it matters to us a lot. Everybody needs to resist this.

Do you like to think you would have resisted the Nazis? If so then you need to resist this. Standing by and letting it happen is the same as collusion.

If you think I'm making hysterical comparisons (or feel tempted to invoke Godwin's law for internet points) you need to read more about what's going on in the US right now.

The arrogance of people on this thread in thinking that Trump or the Queen will take any notice is astounding

Haha better to say something than nothing at all.

I signed it. I don't think Trump or the Queen will take notice, but they may take note.

As I said to my children yesterday, alone in my living room moaning, I was just a groany mum. By signing the petition, my voice joined with a million others, and collectively we were the lead item on the news. It will now be debated in parliament.

It may not change the outcome, but it is a way of registering dissent. Many people believe registering dissent is important.

I'm just wondering how much it is costing to protect him while he is here.

If the US is becoming a fascist state it matters to us a lot. Everybody needs to resist this

Exactly. There are people out there who are US citizens. They cannot fly into their own country because they committed the supposed crime of being born in a blacklisted country.

Trump has sacked the attorney general for doing her job. She is not there to serve the president, she was there to uphold the law and provide impartial legal advice. He didn't like it then sacked her

Trump's government is telling the media to shut up because he doesn't like what they're reporting. That's absurd. If he doesn't like it, then stop doing stupid stuff. One of the signs of a strong democracy is the freedom of the press and freedom of speech.

And he's only been in power for a few days.

And people think this is fine.

A trade deal with the US will likely mean selling off the NHS,

Which makes me wonder why the trump petition has over 1 million signatures yet this petition to protect the NHS from trade deals only has 39,000?

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178082

can you explain why people need to have protested everything remotely similar in the past in order to protest about something they care about now

Speaking personally, I find it easier to believe an opinion is credible and thoughtful and therefore more likely to be true if I hear a calm and rational expose of human rights abuses.

Because the people I know who have long protested against such abuse are articulate, thoughtful people who can process opposing viewpoints without resorting to profane and insulting language.

Because most of them are as willing to listen as they are to share opinion.

Because they do not insist on a binary position from everyone in the debate and sling childish invective when anyone puts an opposing opinion.

Because they attempt to influence policy and opinion outside the parameters of sharing playground insults on social media and defriending those who might choose not to.

Because they are rarely heard, they work behind the scenes with commitment and concrete objectives rather than shrieking 'I don't LIKE him' at full, red-faced volume whenever there's a camera or like-minded group nearby.

Because they are prepared to hold unpopular opinions and hold such courage of their convictions that they do not need to roam in packs reciting the prescribed script as long as there's safety in numbers.

Because they will be a lone, unpopular voice for as long as it takes, when the memes are yesterday's story and there's a new bogeyman in town.

I actually feel really sorry for TM and even more sorry for the queen. Because of Brexit what choice does she have but to go sucking up to disgusting world leaders like Trump. I bet criticism of Trump policies would have been a lot more robust if we'd voted Remain. And people voted out of the EU because they said it was a corrupt bully!

The arrogance of people on this thread in thinking that Trump or the Queen will take any notice is astounding

So we should all go back into our little boxes and accept anything that the Queen, the Prime Minister or Trump will do wo a peep, even if we strongly oppose to it, even if it's against democracy and our values....

Is it how democracy work? Or is the ability to express your opposition part of the democratic system I wonder.....

My hope is he'll be impeached by summer.

As for trump noticing, well, this is a president with extraordinary thin skin...(one of the many reasons he's so dangerous) he won't like it that's for sure.

and they'll also have to debate the fact that many people want him to come now that the counter petition has reached over 100,000 signatures.

Well 100,000 is considerably fewer than 1.7 million isn't it? Even Trump can work that out. He will know these numbers. He will know that many, many Britons strongly disapprove of him and don't want him making a state visit to our country. Criticism really really upsets him.

Mind you, he's so insane, he'll probably start tweeting about that fact that actually 100,000 is more than 1.7 million.

100,000 is great! A bigly number!

The arrogance of people on this thread in thinking that Trump or the Queen will take any notice is astounding

The petition set up using the UK Parliament's own petition service on its website, and is not to the Queen or Trump but to Parliament. They agree to debate issues that get enough support.

Politicians are supposed to listen to us, it's their job FFS!

The arrogance of people commenting on new stories when they can't even be bothered to establish the basic facts!

fake she had plenty of choices actually.
She had the choice to debate in Parliament what sort of Brexit we would get instead of assuming it would be a hard Brexit.
She had the choice of not pissing off the other 27 countries that will need to validate the negotiation process.
She had the choice to stop and think of the consequences of being friend with someone who is completely off the rails.

Oh and she also had the choice to wait longer before inviting him. After being the first PM/president to go see him, we will be the first to invite him. We could have waited after going to see him so quickly.

Because of Brexit what choice does she have but to go sucking up to disgusting world leaders like Trump

She has a choice to go for a soft Brexit. But she won't because she is scared of her party.

She is choosing a harder Brexit to appease her own political party.

Given that she is going to be carrying out the will of the country (apparently), with a vote that was very close, why she thinks this is acceptable is beyond me. Not every leave voter was a member of the Tory party. This isn't Tory party manifesto.

It will have long running effects. She should be trying to take a more middle ground approach but instead is pandering to the hard right.

I voted remain because I couldn't, despite trying long and hard, find a decent argument to support the leave vote.

Yet I appreciate that leave is the direction we are going. What I do not appreciate is that she will be most likely screwing over future generations all for party politics.

Despicable.