to wonder what planet the 'ban Trump from the UK' people are living on

[roseshippy]

Yes I understand that he's a sexist, racist, whatever-else-ist.

But he evidently thinks fondly of the UK, we are currently in the process of saying 'fuck off' to mainland Europe, so we will be a small, friendless island in the North Sea in need of some help.

AIBU to think that we need to suffer a bit of schmoozing from dodgy foreign leaders as part of post-Brexit Britain? (Actually didn't we already schmooze dodgy foreign leaders long before Brexit?)

And in reality Trump is rather less dodgy than the average world leader, if we exclude the EU, as we have done

What are the other choices?

Let's not forget our shared "special relationship " status.. whatever that is? Wouldn't want to be jeopardising it.

There are good decisions and bad decisions.

Decisions whether good or bad can be executed well or poorly.

Trump's only been in the job 10 days and he's executing bad decisions, very poorly.

Regardless of his political views he should be able to communicate these clearly and implement them efficiently ie in a way that works. The chaos for border control who didn't know what the hell was going on clearly demonstrates that he's incompetent in doing this.

In any other job, someone so incompetent in the first few weeks would be fired probably straight away. Particularly in the states where employment laws are not particularly strict nowhere near as strict as here for example.

But Trump can fuck things up straight away and seems answerable to no one. As I say, I'm not talking about his politics which are admittedly abhorent IMHO. But the way he is failing to actually implement them in a professional, capable, efficient way.

So, he's bad AND crap, basically.

I don't really understand the readiness to cosy up to the USA. Every foreign policy from the Suez Crises onward has proven that they don't really care about anyone else, and are willing to harm their allies to further their own gain. (Not saying what the UK/France did was right, just that they threw us under the bus along with the UN so they themselves could gain influence in the middle east).

You can only really trust other countries as much as you need each other. I would trust most European countries much more than i would trust the USA.

Well now that he's conveniently reversed the green card thing, the apologists can claim it shows how marvellous he is

and the doomsayers will merely move the goalposts so they have something else to whinge about.

I dunno. I'd rather be on my own than besties with the school bully

I'd rather have no mates and die on my arse than compromise my most fundamental moral and ethical base

very noble sentiments espoused by so many posters.

I wonder how the same people feel about Turkey, appalling human rights, people killed locked up and dissapeared for opposing him, state controlled media, womens rights actually sent back to the dark ages, as in daily physical impacts on their life, torture etc etc and yet Turkey is EU main trading partner and Turkey as the EU over a barrel with regards to the migration crisis. The people in arms about Trump, were you also in arms about the EU dealings with Turkey and Merkel crawling to Turkey last year to make people shunting deals?

I think the way to address concerns is the diplomatic way

Except Trump's core team consists of people who are very inexperienced, so they don't know how to conduct diplomacy, and people who couldn't give a shit about diplomacy whether they know how to conduct it or not, and people who are actively trying to sabotage diplomacy and trying to bring the whole system crashing down.

This is not business as usual.

I wonder how the same people feel about Turkey, appalling human rights, people killed locked up and dissapeared for opposing him, state controlled media, womens rights actually sent back to the dark ages, as in daily physical impacts on their life, torture etc etc and yet Turkey is EU main trading partner and Turkey as the EU over a barrel with regards to the migration crisis. The people in arms about Trump, were you also in arms about the EU dealings with Turkey and Merkel crawling to Turkey last year to make people shunting deals?

Well, yes, DebbieDowners? I see exactly the same people who are horrified by Trump also absolutely (and vocally) horrified by our dealings with Turkey. Perhaps you need a more informed social circle.

Roseshippy

"
A) either really comfortable with his installing white supremacist in senior positions (Bannen) and trampling on the constitution and trying to set the press up as the enemy or

B) not really paying attention.

Honestly, racist or thick. Those are the options as far as I can see."

He's called 'Bannon'. Who's thick here exactly?

It's fine Roseshippy. I'm sure you are not thick. I'm pretty comfortable that you embrace my other option.

I voted to leave for reasons of sovereignty, I really didn't like the immigration argument and believe in free movement, never in my wildest dreams did I think we would be cozying up to a fascist for trade deals.

I think the referendum vote was taken at a snapshot in time, democracy is a process not an event, we should be doing what is best for Britain in light of what's happening in the whole world, and if Clinton was president I'd say we should carry through with Brexit but not with Trump there, where will he take us? He's a fascist and a mad-man, we could be heading towards world war III. I'm not joking, when all the remainers banged on about war if the EU was to break up I thought they were scare-mongering and ridiculous, now I think they were way ahead of the game.

If you voted leave for reasons of Nationalism under the guise of 'sovereignty' you got what you voted for.

I voted so we could make our own decisions about laws like not making new mothers pay for parking to get formula, it was nothing to do with nationalism so please don't say it was a guise, that's just not true, it was because I hate silly and didn't like the fact we had no control over them - that's what I mean by sovereignty. It now seems petty though and I feel like I voted alongside racists but didn't realise - I don't give a fuck about some silly rules compared now compared to us cozying up with a fascist dictator! Could never predicted this and deeply regret my vote

I hate silly laws*

Oh dear god, did someone really compare Trump sacking the A-G with Corbyn sacking shadow ministers?!! I could cry!!

I need a visa to travel to the US. For those not in the know this process requires me to present myself to the US Embassy for an interview. Yes, even for a holiday. And as I have a Muslim name you can bet your arse any application I make will be thoroughly scrutinised. Why do people think non-Americans just get waved through, I just don't know.

Trump is flipping dangerous. This is a President whose border control officials are happy to disregard federal judges. That's like, oh, immigration officials at Heathrow ignoring a court order.

This is a President who decreed that people with a LEGAL right to settle in the US are persona non grata (until forced to backtrack). This is a President who has downgraded his defence and intelligence experts from the National Security Council and elevated his far-right mates instead.

Yes, China, Saudi etc are horrible countries. But I expect the US to be far better than them, to set an example. And THAT is why I abhor Trump, because he is fast turning America into a country that's being compared with those!

and the doomsayers will merely move the goalposts so they have something else to whinge about.

That is genuinely hilarious when appeasers have been casting about for all the ways to minimise the impact of this order. Those goalposts have been skipping all over the pitch!

whatsthepointofmorgan I think one thing everyone can agree on is that Trump wrote the order with little input from anyone experienced in such things and as a result it has been a source of back tracking and confusion ever since.

This is what happens when you get someone who 'works at the speed of business, not the speed of government'. He can work at the speed of business because he understands how businesses operate. His inexperience in the what the US government can and can't do is being shown up.

I wouldn't compare him to Corbyn, Nixon would be more appropriate as he is the last President to fire an AG. We all know what happened to him.

I hope we can discuss what this means for Brexit without it descending into the same old ground of rubbishing each other's votes and reasons. I think there are a lot of people in the UK now who are quietly disgusted with Trump, but also very heavily invested in making a successful Brexit, and that some of the hostility and spite shown towards anti-Trump Brits comes from a wish that we could please just shut up and pretend he isn't that bad, because it really fucks up the narrative.

Nobody really expected America to be in such a mess right at the time when we were trying to break away from the EU and assert ourselves as 'global Britain', with close links to the US in particular.

(Of course, there are also people here who support Trump, or who are moderately right-wing and able to overlook his far-right agenda, or who genuinely think it's none of our business or that other issues should rate higher. And let's not forget the twits with no particular convictions who find it endlessly perplexing/hilarious that anyone gives a shit about anything.)

I voted so we could make our own decisions about laws like not making new mothers pay for parking to get formula, it was nothing to do with nationalism so please don't say it was a guise, that's just not true, it was because I hate silly and didn't like the fact we had no control over them

If you think we have no control over EU laws, what do you think the European Parliament does? And please don't tell me you thought the EU legislated about parking for mothers buying formula? That story about Tescos refusing parking vouchers in this situation was, as usual, one where the store misinterpreted both EU law and UK government guidance on its implementation.

I voted so we could make our own decisions about laws like not making new mothers pay for parking to get formula
Then you voted for an idiotic reason, because "Europe" never had anyting to do with that, ever.

Well the latest update is that Trump is threatening to send troops into Mexico, where I live. Oh fuck

Ok firstly I voted remain, however I can understand people's issues with the EU legislation, Please note I have simplified it & as is its far too long a post (sorry) plus there are a number of variations & exceptions to the following - but in my experience these are the most common issues. 1) it is overly complicated 2) yes it is our implementation of it, and sometimes it has been implemented incorrectly (far too often at local levels due to a difficulty in assessing what it means). 3) the EU legislation sits on top as guidance, each member country implements their own regulations which should use the legislation as best practise (and refer back when there are agreed key points that must be implemented). If a you don't implement a country based regulation that thoroughly covers that piece of EU legislation it refers to then you leave your government open to an appeal in the European courts. These appeals are normally brought by industry rather than individuals but can be costly; hence it is the best interest of the member country to implement strong regulations.
Now the fun bit, some of these legislations are actually rather good, and so are the regulations that come from them. Interestingly US based companies have many battles in the EU court, Oracle for one, the EU laws are preventing some US companies from conducting business as they wish, which in turn has forced some of these companies to price fairer and to lower their obscene license transfer costs ( curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?docid=124564&doclang=EN) I saw first hand the affect of this ruling, it saved our public sectors bodies 100s of thousands.
I have often seen good regulations used poorly by civil servants who just "don't get it" or "well I've done it this way for 10 years...." Personally I would have liked more education on how each regulation works when it is implemented and anyone who wants to "quote/use" can not do so unless they have taken the obligatory on line course to show they understand it. So the long of it is that yes the EU have an impact on our law, and I completely understand why people say they make some our laws as in a way they do. Apologies again for the long post.

Well the latest update is that Trump is threatening to send troops into Mexico, where I live. Oh fuck

Do you have a link for that?

From what I can tell but my language skills are limited its about a rather unpleasant phone call between the two Presidents where Trump threatened to send in the troops. I'm at the stage now where I would believe he would do it, so I can understand why that would worry people living in Mexico.
m.aristeguinoticias.com/0102/mundo/trump-humillo-a-pena-nieto-el-presidente-mexicano-balbuceo-dolia-estevez/

Yes, 2017willbeawesome, that is where I got the information, are you in Mexico?

takenname Here is a link to an aol story www.aol.com/article/news/2017/02/01/report-in-a-humiliating-and-threatening-tone-trump-lambast/21705130/

Hi Atenco no I'm not in Mexico, rural England but there has been a fair bit about it in the business news papers so I tracked down the source article.