..to prefer to be an expectant mother rather than a pregnant person?

[CatWithKittens]

The BMA has advised doctors not to refer to an expectant mother but to a pregnant person. Leaving aside the obvious question as to whether somebody who is trans-gender and pregnant is not also going to be a mother, do other people think I am being unduly sensitive when I say, that if either term has to be used, I would still prefer to be referred to as an expectant mother (if we get round to DC6)?

"I've just had a look at the document and it does seem to be guidance for internal use - e.g. in memos, emails, committee minutes etc. "

It says

"This guidance should be applied to all forms of communication, including conversations, committee papers, documents, letters, emails and the website. Anything that we produce reflects the association and it is vital that all our communications are free from discriminatory language, or what could be interpreted as discriminatory language." "

So ANY output of the BMA should avoid 'pregnant woman', along with other terms they list, such as 'spastic', and 'Mongol'.

And let's not forget to mention "chest feeding"

And that we shouldn't assume people are married

Does this still happen?

Bubbins what you are saying has nothing whatsoever to do with pregnant women persons.

I think "Mother" has an emotive quality about it which is frankly not needed. There's far too much of HCPs calling us "Mum" as it is.

I know "Mother" is slightly different but so what? The child is the only person to call the woman "Mother" isn't it?

Elendon when I had DD 12 years ago, they kept calling me "Mrs Bla de blah" (my name) and I said "I'm Miss" and they said "Oh we call all Mothers Mrs. out of respect" and I said "Not me. I'm not married. Please call me Miss or Ms"

Bloody cheek. I hope that still doesn't happen. Fucking respect indeed!

Mother is used many times in the NHS maternity book.

'Chest feeding specialists' Anyone can apply no experience necessary. (Actually, the breast feeding specialist I had after my first baby hadn't given birth or breast fed - this was in 1993).

I never even considered this could be a trans issue! My first thought was that it was about not assuming every pregnant woman will become a mother - adoption etc.

User, that's appalling! Respect indeed.

Interesting and extremely worrying how it is not socially acceptable to speak out against transfashism in public.

If TAs are so keen on labels, maybe Transfashist might sit well? It's a non-gendered word and rather befitting of the male draconian and autocratic (as in domineering and taking no account of other people's wishes and opinions) attitudes of TA.

You are still a mother if you give your child up for adoption.

You are still a mother if your child dies at birth.

Oh gosh elandon I know that, it came out clumsily. Apologies for any offence caused.

Elendon even!

Could also be to avoid/be clear on/mixed use of girls/ladies/women/females ?

peace no harm, I knew what you meant. Just thought it might help to clarify more.

Pregnancy and childbirth is a world wide issue and there are still too many women and children dying or suffering in this process. It concerns us all as people, or at least it should.

Actually, if anything is going to be of a concern linguistically it is surely the terms 'midwife' and 'obstetrics', the latter meaning pertaining to 'midwife' but paid better

This reminds me of the signs in the local fertility clinic in my nearest NHS hospital. In an effort to embrace diversity and be non-discriminatory, which is laudable, the signs depict various cartoonish characters as either singletons or in pairs. The only problem is that when you count them up, there are seven adult male characters and only four adult females. It always amuses me to see them as it is as though females are somehow the minor factor in the process of assisted conception.

Obviously, no one that works there has noticed this, but it has always struck me as an illustration of what can accidentally happen when people get too wrapped up in current socio-political modes. You can end up alienating or minimising the very people your service or actions are attempting to treat, and that can erode trust.

This BMA document is a disaster, not necessarily because it attempts to force a language change onto the medical establishment that would confuse many service users, but because it says to pregnant women: "you are not a expectant mother anymore in our eyes, you are a pregnant person." And that is quite a big shift. It takes away all the biological, social and cultural associations that are encapsulated by the meaning of the word "mother" from the pregnant woman. To me, it acts to sever the biological process of conception, pregnancy and birth from the social, cultural and political implications of that biological process.

The ideological side of me thinks that it is quite interesting, to be honest, but in reality, it is utterly unworkable.

Again, I find it amusing that the BMA document is about "effective communication" when the suggestions given will probably cause more ineffective communication than at present. You have to consider that many midwives and obstetricians deal with pregnant women that do not have very good English language skills; in such cases, it is a very good idea to stick with generally understood and known terms. Mother is a concept in every language; the notion of a "pregnant person" is not.

Across the whole trans business the only thing that's consistent is that it's women who have to give up or move over. We aren't supposed to mind giving up our spaces and now we're supposed to give up the word "mother".

We're women, posting on Mumsnet: sure, we know all about letting others define us and allow what words we can use for ourselves and our bodies. This time the demand that we're unselfish comes from those who purport to speak for transmen. Apart from that, it's just more of the same.

Excellent post, Werkz

CoolJazz I find your reply from the BMA disingenuous anyway: if I understand it correctly,, they are saying that it has only been 'misleadingly reported' because their advice was issued within the organisation rather than for doctors to use with their patients - not because they haven't advised this terminology at all. This means that they DO think it is 'the right thing to do' to phase out the use of the term 'expectant mother', and it's surely only a matter of time before the ethos permeates across its whole area of influence. If they are sure of their thought process, why would it vary across different contexts?

I'm sad when I read about MN being 'transphobic'. In all the relevant threads I've read, there's astonishingly little objective nastiness. Almost all posts are written in a reasonable, moderate tone. Calling them transphobic just indicates that any other view than the current trend is not acceptable - and where does that leave us?

And you are also now a 'chest feeder,' not a breastfeeder.

It's utterly ridiculous and YANBU.