to think teacher and head should have intervened?

[neuroticmumof3]

My friend's ds(8) has had some issues with a child at school who has been verbally and emotionally unpleasant to him (calling him fat, saying freckles make him ugly, telling his friends not be his friends anymore). It all came to a head the other day when friend's ds used unkind words about the other child (true but unkind). my friend is fully supportive of the school disciplining her ds about his behaviour and he has also had sanctions at home as a result of his actions. The unkind behaviour from the other child has been going on for some time now and the school have been aware of it.

after my friend dropped ds off at school the day after this happened the other child's dm went into the classroom, walked up to ds, pushed her face up to his and shouted at him. The class teacher witnessed this but did nothing and said nothing. Another parent witnessed it, comforted ds who was quite shocked and distressed and told my friend. The teacher later said the incident had been unfortunate!

After shouting at ds this parent was then verbally abusive to my friend (swearing included) on school property and in front of the headteacher, who did nothing! At this stage my friend didn't know her ds had just been shouted at by this parent.
other parents and children were still going to class as well so would have witnessed and heard her shouting and swearing.

AIBU to think this behaviour should have been challenged and stopped? if another parent got up close to my child and shouted in their face i would expect the teacher to take appropriate and immediate action but is that unrealistic and unreasonable of me? I genuinely feel a bit confused as to whether i can trust the school to protect my child from unacceptable adult behaviour.

You and your child's are not actually involved in any of this. Did you actually witness it?

What do you expect the head or teacher to actually do at that moment? Obviously afterwards - depending on the seriousness of what happened - police involvement or a ban on that parent coming on school grounds might be appropriate, but what 'appropriate and immediate action' would you suggest?

If I was there and someone was screaming in my child's face I'm afraid the teacher wouldn't get chance to intervene. however had this happened in a class I was teaching I would have stepped in without hesitation and immediately sent for HT

Fuck sake it's just allowing the bullying to continue and escalate isn't it

What happen when a mum tried to bully me on school property was they were called the office for a chat and told only one family member could collect at a time because they only abused me as a group

Im not great at reading. I can read the words but. I sometimes struggle with the thought behind them, but. What ive read it as. Your friends little on has been bullied. Shes been up the school. Theyve done nothing sbout it. Her ds has been pushed too far and . He retailated. Is that right.
Next minute the child's mother runs in screaming like a banshee in his face. Scaring him and no doubt other children in his class. The teacher and the HT stand there and doing nothing. I'd be calling the safeguarding officer. That's a disgrace.
Does your friend know. By law they every school has to have an anti bullying policy which any parent can ask to see at anytime.
I highly doubt it'll say. We brush bullying under the carpet, or basically side with the bully. We also allow bullies parents to run into the school. Without being police checked. I might add and scream at children when they retaliate to their precious little poppets.

but what 'appropriate and immediate action' would you suggest?

Can't speak for the OP but if an adult came into a classroom, got in a child's face and shouted at them, I would expect the teacher to take action to protect the child (for example maybe telling the child to come to them) and very firmly telling the adult that that is not acceptable and they needed to leave.

If an adult was shouting and swearing at another adult on school premises and the Head was present I would expect them to tell the shouting adult that this was inappropriate and that they needed to calm down, and if they could, offer to see both adults privately to discuss their concerns.

YNBU to think the behaviour should have been challenged and stopped no but sadly in my experience some members of staff and other parents reluctant to get involved. The last person (dinner lady) I know to try and diffuse a screaming match at the school gates between two parents when everyone was in the playground got hauled in by the head because they both complained about her interfering. I'll always remember because my DC had a meeting later on that morning and I passed that poor lady in the reception in floods of tears.

DeathStare: I'm 99% sure that's what I would do, but actually I am not obliged to confront aggressive behaviour, particularly if it might escalate the situation or place me in physical danger.

That's awful, if it was another child screaming in your Ds' face the teacher would intervene so why not when it's an adult? surely it's even more appropriate to put a stop to it when its adult vs child?
It sounds like a crap situation which I would be chasing up - someone has been bullied, finally snapped and the punishment seems to be more on them not the bully. Shit, but sadly all too common

YANBU, they most certainly should have steered her away and suggested that her behaviour was inappropriate.

Clear to see where her son gets his lovely attitude from, though.

Sorry your friend and her DS had to put up with this.

why would you expect a teacher to intervene with an aggressive adult? That is far more likely to escalate the situation. How do you know the teacher was not unwell, pregnant, or in any other way too vulnerable to intervene. Teachers are not there to fight off parents.

It sounds like the other child is simply behaving the same way as his DM, and perhaps the school is aware and there are already measures in places for the boy. Or maybe based on the behaviour exhibited by the other DM, the school can't get through to her and are at their wit's end too.

You never know what's going on behind the scenes.

The teacher was probably in shock. Perhaps she thought for a minute it was the child's own mum shouting at him. Are you certain the Headteacher saw it? It probably happened quite quickly, but I would expect the Headteacher to certainly ask the mum for a strong word afterwards, and ask her not to do that again in school. Other than that, I'm not sure what they can do, unless they can ban her from school premises for a period of time, and put something in place to allow her to drop her child off at the door?

Thank you, user1484226561.

I took action to break up a fight in my classroom on my last day before maternity leave because, for most teachers, protecting their students is an instinct and I am no exception. But I quickly realised I have a greater responsibility to my own child and actually I am perfectly entitled to put my physical safety first. I called for help.

A teacher's responsibility in terms of safeguarding does not include putting themselves in harm's way. Not paid enough to be legally obliged to do that, sorry.

Very Combine my DD snapped after 10months of sustained bullying. The culprits quite literally got away with murder.

On the day she snapped. She didn't hit anyone back or retaliate, she just refused to do her work until the teacher addressed the problem / told them to shut up. Yes she should have thought it through but you don't always think properly when in that situation.

I was called in that day for her being 'silly'. Teachers exact words. I wouldn't have been told about the other incident that day either if it wasn't for the same group bullying my daughter being caught red handed crowding around another cowering little girl later that day bless her and the staff suddenly wanting to make it look like they'd been proactive witnesses .

DD isn't there anymore thank God.

I would expect a teacher to intervene because they are acting loco parentis and their job is to protect the children they teach. This took place in a classroom, not outside the school gates. So yes, either using on call, or asking parent to leave the premises tout suite. I would have been absolutely livid at anyone walking into MY classroom, throwing their weight about like an episode of Jeremy Kyle. Used to teach in inner city so have seen it all.

HolisticAssassin: No, it is not their job to protect the children. In loco parentis means making reasonable decisions that do not place the children in danger. It does not mean placing oneself in danger.

Trifle i would hope that a teacher witnessing another adult shouting in my child's face to tell the adult that was unacceptable and to ask the child if they were ok. I would expect a head teacher to remind a shouting and swearing parent that such behaviour isn't acceptable in school premises.
I did not witness the incident but the teacher has not denied it happened, merely said it was unfortunate.
It was witnessed by several parents, one of whom comforted ds when she realised teacher was not going to say or do anything. I trust this parent to give an accurate account of what happened, she is not a drama queen or a particularly close friend of anyone involved, just a nice person.

I think this is third hand and I doubt it happened as the OP states.

I also don't know why you're asking, except to perpetuate some drama.

why would you expect a teacher to intervene with an aggressive adult?
Because they have a duty of care to the children?
I would struggle to stand by and watch an adult shout and swear in a child's face without intervening, just because it is wrong, even if I didn't know either of them. I'm shocked that so many people think it's beyond what a teacher should have to do, to protect a child in her classroom :-o. If it's really so dangerous for the teacher, it's dangerous for the child too, surely?!
If it was another fairly larger child in the class abusing a pupil, is that also outside the teachers responsibility in case the big kid hurt the teacher? Where do you draw the line??

Lisa Potts protected her children from a man with a machete.

I would remove my child from the school immediately under the scenario you have described.

The teacher did nothing when a parent verbally assaulted a child in front of her in her classroom.

The head teacher did nothing when a parent verbally assaulted another parent in front of them on school grounds.

The head teacher and teachers have done nothing about reported bullying, in spite of knowing about it.

This is a school that lacks leadership and standards. They are afraid to do the right thing. Where is the safeguarding???

I'd have my child out of there with a letter to the governors, the local authority, and ofsted.

neuroticmumof3: And I hope I would do so too. But I am not obliged to if I believe that action will endanger me, and certainly not if I believe it will further endanger the students. Sometimes intervening makes things worse.

Trifle My instinct wouldn't allow me to stand by and watch a child in my care being threatened by an adult, and I can't understand any adult that would.

Also OP. I dont know if its relevant but at the DCs last school. Only trained 'handlers' (hate that phrase as it makes the children sound like dogs) were allowed to split up fights between children. Children often dont realise their own strength and the same is true of adults. A friend of mine was a nurse and unfortunately miscarried a much wanted baby when a seemingly reasonable patient suddenly got aggressive. I have often walked into fights in the playground and you have to keep yourself and your DCs safe first and foremost in certain circumstances.