to think teacher and head should have intervened?

[neuroticmumof3]

My friend's ds(8) has had some issues with a child at school who has been verbally and emotionally unpleasant to him (calling him fat, saying freckles make him ugly, telling his friends not be his friends anymore). It all came to a head the other day when friend's ds used unkind words about the other child (true but unkind). my friend is fully supportive of the school disciplining her ds about his behaviour and he has also had sanctions at home as a result of his actions. The unkind behaviour from the other child has been going on for some time now and the school have been aware of it.

after my friend dropped ds off at school the day after this happened the other child's dm went into the classroom, walked up to ds, pushed her face up to his and shouted at him. The class teacher witnessed this but did nothing and said nothing. Another parent witnessed it, comforted ds who was quite shocked and distressed and told my friend. The teacher later said the incident had been unfortunate!

After shouting at ds this parent was then verbally abusive to my friend (swearing included) on school property and in front of the headteacher, who did nothing! At this stage my friend didn't know her ds had just been shouted at by this parent.
other parents and children were still going to class as well so would have witnessed and heard her shouting and swearing.

AIBU to think this behaviour should have been challenged and stopped? if another parent got up close to my child and shouted in their face i would expect the teacher to take appropriate and immediate action but is that unrealistic and unreasonable of me? I genuinely feel a bit confused as to whether i can trust the school to protect my child from unacceptable adult behaviour.

Seven other children flocking around her, 2 mum's wanting to explain why little Johnny is under the weather, a TA asking where the resources are and a new child not being able to get out of their coat?

Seeing that another did manage to get close to the child to reassure them, I would assume that the teacher could have done the same.
Even if it was after the event, it's not normal that it's another parent that went to reassure the friend ds.

The OP is saying that she is now wondering if the school can actually keep her dc safe. And keep the friend DC safe.
The reality is that to keep children safe, you need to act way before any incident like this happen. It starts with dealing with the incidents between the two boys right at the start so they don't escalate, in this case the ds actually standing up to the unkind child and telling him some truths.
That's also why some schools do not allow parents to come into the classroom (our primary certainly didn't unless you were going to speak to the teacher specifically - and that was always either before or after school, so no children in the classroom).

So yes schools can protect children and usually do.
In that particular case, it seems that none of the basics were there though.

So if i was your friend, I would go and have a chat with the HT, going up to the governors of nothing is coming to it.

Smile - but the priority should have been that child who was on the receiving end of some pretty threatening behaviour. A loud "I will be with you soon" to all the others who wanted her attention while she got to that child would have sufficed.

TBH sir I just listed a random number of things that could've been happening around a primary teacher at drop off time. I have NO IDEA what was happening.

And you know what?
neither does the OP

Bestthingever
Why wouldn't the teacher have been able to?

Chairs, tables, children, other parents, bags and coats could all be in the way of the teacher getting to a child in this situation.

Are any of those people who think it may have been difficult to get to the child teachers or TAs?

If a child was being shouted at by another parent, of course that parent should have been dealt with, told to stop and leave.

Even if I and 29 other children at my feet, I'd tell them to wait and go to the 8 year old being shouted at by an adult.

you just have not thought it through. What are you going to do? You can't touch the parent, you can't touch the child, either of them could hit you, if you shout you are just escalating the whole situation, you most probably can't reach them to speak quietly, and you would most probably be ignored if you did. A teacher getting involved in a fracas with a parent in the class room is likely to be disciplined, and the children would be upset. Realistically, the best and safest and fastest way do deescalate the situation is to not approach the parent at all, and contact them after,

Exactly Greymist.

Bestthingever I am and absolutely would have intervened.

I'm shocked.

If I saw an adult shouting at a child in a classroom, it wouldn't even cross my mind to consider my own safety, I would remove the child from the situation.

I would remove all the children from it.

User , you are basically saying you would stand there and let the parent finish their screaming match at the child. Fingers crossed it's just verbally they are planning on abusing the child and not physically.

I'm shocked that teachers think it would be ok to stand by and watch in an attempt to "descalate" the situition.

I can totally understand being in the situation at the time and not doing the best thing. I don't blame the teacher involved for that, they were probably pretty shocked and it happened fast.

But to say it is a good way of dealing with such a situation is really poor.

Were the words racist?

The parent was still out of order whatever. You should tell your friend to complain to the head and write to the governors.

littleducks: It's not that it IS better; it's that it MIGHT be better. If you know the parent and there have been previous incidents, for example, you might know they have a tendency to turn violent if confronted. As undesirable as it is for them to shout at a child, it is surely better than violence. In that situation you might think it's better to let them say what they are going to say and then leave.

That's probably why some of these people think it's ok for them to scream and shout at other people. Because others are too scared to stand up and say they are out of order.

If a parent starts screaming at a child in a classroom, you walk up to the child, lead them by the hand and walk them away from the screaming parent.

GreyMist: It's not necessarily about being too scared. If you know intervening could easily make it worse, you are protecting the children by allowing the parent to vent and then leave. Some people are wackos - the action you just described might be seriously provocative to them.

I'm quite concerned that the teacher didn't call the child to her, and / or confront the parent, at the very least ,with "Is there a problem?".

Parents can be bloody scary!

Okay teachers HT are human. If they were scared. Some may say Perhaps you cant blame them for not intervening.
However.If it was to the point that the teacher and HT were scared to intervene. She must have been extremely threatening and intimidating. So perhaps the police should have been called.
Imagine you're 8 years old. In a room without your mum/dad and . A big monster, (which she was to him) is screaming in your face. That must have the life out of the little guy.

Thanks to some of you. i am not posting to create drama as some have suggested but to get a reality check. I had assumed a teacher would at least verbally remonstrate an adult shouting in the face of a child and to check how the child is once the aggressive adult has left.
I'm trying to get a sense of what it is reasonable to expect. i'm not asking school staff to put their lives at risk, nothinf physical was going on, my friends ds was clear about what had happened, woman walked up
to where he was sat, shoved her face right up close to him and shouted, not a complex or lengthy series of events and as i have said the other mother who witnessed it and had to comfort him is not a drama queen or a school gate gossiper. The teacher did not deny the incident had happened, he labelled it unfortunate.
My friend is making a complaint but i am now feeling uneasy about the school's ability and willingness to safeguard our children. although this did not happen to my child it is relevant as she attends the school.
as my name suggests i am a bit of a worrier at times and it can help
me to check out others' views to see if i'm being unbalanced or not!

"Teachers are not there to fight off parents"
A teacher's responsibility in terms of safeguarding does not include putting themselves in harm's way"

I am actually quite shocked by this!

I suppose I can see the point regarding one parent being aggressive to another (though I would expect the head teacher to tackle it in SOME way- behaviour such as this is unacceptable and needs to be addressed). However, on seeing an adult be aggressive to a child, on school property, then I would accept a teacher to intervene and not stand by and let it happen. Do they not have a duty of care? To then call the incident "unfortunate" is pretty gobsmacking.

My child would not be staying in a school where this was allowed to happen, without any intervention, and then swept aside with an "it was an unfortunate incident". Especially not on a background where my child was being bullied but no action taken, when on the other hand my child did something wrong and was (rightly) disciplined. On the face of it, this school seem pretty inadequate.

Er trifle I think that you forget ' Loco Parentis' this means that every child in that room , IS your child and therefore I find your comments very sad and I hope you do not teach my children. What world do we live in when an adult of any profession would not step in to protect a child !!!!! Let alone a teacher. FFS !!!

Teachers are not there to fight off parents. Perhaps not, but
Children are not in school to be abused, are they

By "intervention" I don't mean heroics, putting themselves between adult and child or the like- I mean simply walking over and saying "Ms X, please stop shouting" or something similar. And then comforting the child/making sure someone was with them. Or making sure the parent left the classroom or asking someone to get the HT or similar.

How on earth? Do you think that by allowing it to continue , you are protecting the child? Have you any idea , the damage to the child's mind this is doing?