to think teacher and head should have intervened?

[neuroticmumof3]

My friend's ds(8) has had some issues with a child at school who has been verbally and emotionally unpleasant to him (calling him fat, saying freckles make him ugly, telling his friends not be his friends anymore). It all came to a head the other day when friend's ds used unkind words about the other child (true but unkind). my friend is fully supportive of the school disciplining her ds about his behaviour and he has also had sanctions at home as a result of his actions. The unkind behaviour from the other child has been going on for some time now and the school have been aware of it.

after my friend dropped ds off at school the day after this happened the other child's dm went into the classroom, walked up to ds, pushed her face up to his and shouted at him. The class teacher witnessed this but did nothing and said nothing. Another parent witnessed it, comforted ds who was quite shocked and distressed and told my friend. The teacher later said the incident had been unfortunate!

After shouting at ds this parent was then verbally abusive to my friend (swearing included) on school property and in front of the headteacher, who did nothing! At this stage my friend didn't know her ds had just been shouted at by this parent.
other parents and children were still going to class as well so would have witnessed and heard her shouting and swearing.

AIBU to think this behaviour should have been challenged and stopped? if another parent got up close to my child and shouted in their face i would expect the teacher to take appropriate and immediate action but is that unrealistic and unreasonable of me? I genuinely feel a bit confused as to whether i can trust the school to protect my child from unacceptable adult behaviour.

I've also stood between students and a man with a machete, it was wrong of me, I could have left my children motherless. It was instinct at the time, but i would never do it again. A teacher's first responsibility is to their own family.

I'm shocked that so many people think it's beyond what a teacher should have to do, to protect a child in her classroom

And yet it is. The line is drawn at the point where that teacher believes intervention will place her or the students in greater danger. She CAN intervene but she doesn't have to.

user1484226561: Jesus.

It shocks me that people actually believe this was your job.

bookeatingboy: Mine too. That isn't the point. She wasn't obliged.

I was also thinking of Lisa Potts

I think in reality most people would do what they thought best to protect a child from an adult.

Trifle I don't much care that she wasn't obliged too.

It speaks volumes about an adult who would stand by and let this happen to a child in their care. My children are going on a residential soon and I hope the teaching staff going with them don't think only about their own family if one of the dc was in danger.

If the teacher and the head were worried about confronting the parent at the time because of a fear of the situation escalating, I would expect them to later inform the parent that they are now barred from the school premises and they can only gain access with a police escort. That is what happened at DD's school when a father decided to shout and scream at his son's Kindergarten teacher.

I would expect the parent of the child who was shouted at to be informed of what was going on too. Many children in English schools seem to live in the same area as each other. I'd definitely want to know if someone a few streets away was gunning for my child.

bookeatingboy: You don't much care?

The OP's question is whether she is unreasonable. Given that the teacher is under no obligation to place herself in danger and the OP wasn't actually there so isn't able to comment on how likely this was, yes, she is unreasonable.

Please don't send your DCs on a residential with those expectations. Keep them at home where you can protect them yourself.

It probably happened so fast nobody could do anything. I'm picturing the scene, lots of mums dropping off kids, teacher one side of room hears someone shouting at a child. She was probably destructed by another mum at the time, perhaps maybe couldn't see that it was not that child's mum shouting at him. Probably by the time she realised what was happening, it had finished?

I'm pregnant I would still intervene at the very least verbally. I've never worked anywhere where it isn't assumed you would. I am intrigued what your friend did op?

Definitely complain - this is absolutely appalling. The teacher should have called for more help immediately if they felt so threatened, but there is no way on this earth I would have stood by while a child was on the receiving end of that in a place where they are supposed to be safe. Disgraceful behaviour.

Unacceptable behaviour from the teacher and the HT IMO.

Both for the lack of response at the parent behaviour.
And at the easy they have handled the situation with the other child in the first place.
You don't say what your friend ds said BUT being told to you are fat, that you are ugly and the likes isn't being nice either. Has the child being disciplined the same way that the ds has? When this didn't work and the not nice words were still said to the ds, what was done to protect him?

From the outside it looks like everyone is pandering to the not very nice child and the parents out of fear TBH,

The culprits quite literally got away with murder.
Gosh, that's awful.

This is one of the reasons why so many schools don't let parents into classrooms at drop off time. It can become a safeguarding issue very quickly.

I would expect the head teacher to be sending a letter cautioning that any repeat instances will see the parent banned from the premises (and perhaps banning them from the classroom with immediate effect). I would not expect any of the other parents to be aware that this was happening.

Trifleorbust I think there are several different ways for a teacher to "intervene". Would I expect the teacher to jump in between the adult and the child in these circumstances? No. Because it could cause the situation to escalate.

However I still think the teacher could intervene without causing escalation. She could call for (or send a child for) help. She could call the child being shouted at to come to her. She could ask all the children to leave the classroom. She could say to the parent "I can see you're really upset MS X. Let's step out into the corridor and talk about it" And yes I would expect her to intervene in those sort of ways. And whether or not she is legally obliged to, I think she's morally obliged to.

You don't really know what happened, you weren't there. You don't know that no action had been taken; shouty aggressive mum and headteacher are not going to be informing you of what action is going to be taken.

Are teachers not supposed to be 'in loco parentis' , ie acting in place of parents?

I would be v annoyed if my child was shouted at by an adult in front of their teacher & the teacher did nothing.

And some of the comments here reassure me that I am correct in not letting my child go on a residential trip.

DeathStare: Of course, but I think the OP (who wasn't there) expected something more direct.

The issue here is not what action is taken after the event - the teacher and HT did nothing at the time. The child was not protected in any way, shape or form. As Death says, there are many ways in which it could have been dealt with there and then, but these adults chose to do nothing while it was happening to a small child - and then referred to the incident as "unfortunate"

I agree with pp. It's a gut instinct to protect your pupils. I would have guided the child away and asked the parent to leave immediately.

CoastalCommand apologies. I should have worded that better. Basically I meant the circle of bullies made up a quarter of the class and nothing was done because the staff were to scared of upsetting the parents because of who they were. So theoretically they 'got away with murder' not actual murder.

but what about afterwards when the threat was gone for those whoo wouldn't want to intervene? surely the parent of the shouted at child should be informed and the aggressive parent called in under safer circumstances later to be told how it won't be tolerated.

CombineBananaFister: Definitely. They should be banned from school premises for such appalling behaviour.

Bestthingever

You are assuming that the teacher could physically get to the child.

Why wouldn't the teacher have been able to?