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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Bed blocking in hospitals

465 replies

SummitLove · 29/01/2017 10:53

AIBU to think that actually a lot of this situation is being caused by families taking no, or very little responsibility, in caring for their elderly relatives?

Are we, as a society, now in a situation where many of us our so entitled we just expect social services or the health services to provide everything? Seems to have been a huge shift from families being involved in care to families expecting others to provide care for elderly relatives.

Mooching over this thought today and would love to hear responses from both sides.

Have three elderly people near us (one couple and one single) that we help out as their families appear to have washed their hands of them. They rarely visit, don't organise simple things like online shopping, or come and help with trimming the hedges in the summer. Honestly, it's been so cold these past few days that I would have expected someone to have called or check in on them.

OP posts:
TinselTwins · 29/01/2017 12:59

and besides, Mum didn't want to go to a care home why? was it a funding thing?

whatsthepointofmorgan · 29/01/2017 12:59

60 year old

mycatwantstokillme1 · 29/01/2017 13:00

Rafals you haven't come across as nasty on this thread at all. I agree with what you and chipped have been saying - the problem is the cuts - 85% of which directly affect women. Through my work I've some male carers, but the overwhelming majority of carers are women and cuts to benefits, privatisation of the NHS etc etc are what's causing this crisis, not because family members aren't pulling their weight.

Triplesalco · 29/01/2017 13:00

Can I give a different view?
I have a degenerative, neurological disease. It will be my cause of death. In the mean time, my health and abilities differ. One day I'm walking, the next day I gave to use my chair.

I am also a single parent. My eldest is about to graduate and my youngest completing A levels.

It fills me with horror and makes me angry that they could be expected to give up their lives to care for me.
I will not allow it, I'd go to Switzerland first.

i have paid ridiculous about of tax and national insurance throughout my life. NHS is supposed to be for life.

Are schools going to start saying :Work hard, get great results, get a career - then give it up to care for your parents.

TinselTwins · 29/01/2017 13:02

I'm sure a frail 95 year old who's suffered a stroke will have a vastly different outcome to say, a 60 who suffers a stroke.

I've met 90 year olds that were a damn sight more spritely than some more sedentry 50 year olds I know

So when is your cut off Hmm - are you saying Drs should turn people away by age? what age?

DJBaggySmalls · 29/01/2017 13:03

In other cultures people without families die. Its only one reason why large families and family obligations are prized.

In our culture we are penalised for having an empty bedroom even it it is needed by a part time carer.

GrandDesespoir · 29/01/2017 13:03

Somebody may have already said this, but not everyone has children to look after them when they get older.

TinselTwins · 29/01/2017 13:03

I know an 80 year old yoga instructer and there's a man in his 90s that goes to one of my yoga classes..

compared to a 50 year old over weight smoker who does no exercise?

Original poster
SummitLove · 29/01/2017 13:05

Rafals I just re-read all your threads - I owe you an apology - I thought you had made a personal attack on me in one of your posts. I now see it wasn't you. Sorry about that.

OP posts:
Sizzledsticks · 29/01/2017 13:05

I completely agree with Morgan. I certainly wouldn't want my life artificially prolonged just to sit in a chair and moan because I'm frightened because I don't understand what's going on and I don't recognise anyone. I'm not talking about eugenics, I'm talking about not receiving hospital treatment for, say, a chest infection/stroke/heart failiure if I'm in a state of advanced dementia. I would like to make that decision now, while I am well.
I would of course not expect anyone else to make that decision, and would receive hospital treatment if they wish it. It's just about having the choice.

mycatwantstokillme1 · 29/01/2017 13:05

truplesalco well said - I'm sorry for the position you're in and agree with your post.

Original poster
SummitLove · 29/01/2017 13:06

Triple Sorry to read your situation. I think, I would want to do exactly the same and travel to Switzerland too.

I think what we may see is career options having to become more flexible to allow both men and women to care for elderly relatives. I don't by the way view this as a "female only role", my partner does his fair share too.

OP posts:
candycoatedwaterdrops · 29/01/2017 13:07

Zafod I can't speak for other parts of the world but I can tell you that my client group is certainly not predominantly white. I work with people from all sorts of backgrounds as dementia does not discriminate.

Kidnapped · 29/01/2017 13:08

Between DP and I we had 8 grandparents. 7 of them died before they got to 70 years old. Heart attacks usually.

So now FIL is in his late 80s. He's been retired for over 35 years so has been able to relax and look after his health and only now is he starting to have chronic and complex health problems. I wouldn't be surprised if he lives another 10 years at least with worse and worse health problems.

They live 400 miles away.

Original poster
SummitLove · 29/01/2017 13:08

Grand Yes, you are right of course. I guess this raises another issue:

What happens to people who need a little bit of care input but don't qualify for social services care, and don't have families around to care for them (or families that are able to care for them?

OP posts:
Chippednailvarnishing · 29/01/2017 13:11

And how exactly is Heir doing other types of care going to stop her mother from taking up a hospital bed, when she needs lifting? Tea and hedge trimming won't free up hospital beds. They don't keep people in hospital because they lack gardening support.

I'm guessing you are being purposefully disingenuous as you know your opening post blaming families for the current NHS crisis is completely ridiculous.

Famalam13 · 29/01/2017 13:14

In my very limited experience (Indonesia) elderly people are cared for more by family as there is multigenerational living. However this is possible because very few people move away from their home. As the countries become more affluent people are moving to the cities etc. Just as we did during the industrial revolution. So in time these societies will probably become as dispersed as we are.

Original poster
SummitLove · 29/01/2017 13:15

No Chip It's not. It's something i've experienced recently, you may not have experienced it, but I have. So yes, I am allowed to form an opinion on it and ask what others think. If you don't like me asking that move along to a different thread.

They keep people in hospital because they lack family support in some cases. Tea and hedge cutting are an example of families not giving that support in some cases.

OP posts:
Chippednailvarnishing · 29/01/2017 13:18

Yes I can just see nursing staff saying "oh no, your gardening won't get done, you must stay in and increase the numbers of patients waiting for beds in A&E".

TinselTwins · 29/01/2017 13:19

In my very limited experience (Indonesia) elderly people are cared for more by family as there is multigenerational living.

Here's the thing about areas and cultures that do multigenerational living: it does not begin when someone needs care

Look elsewhere on MN, parents being told to charge their kids rent as soon as they turn 16, any adult children in their 20s "need" to find a way to move out etc…..

Where there IS commonly multigenerational living, the elderly person recieving the car will often have housed their adult children and their spouses and even their children long long before needing care, so:

It's just a continuation of existing living situations, the young children are not uprooted - they're used to living with grandma/grandpa! The houses are big enough for it to work, the money is there - i.e. adult children are living in their parents houses without being charged market value rent, so can afford to take some time to care between them

TinselTwins · 29/01/2017 13:21

There's also a darker side to "multigenerational living" - the younger family members who have lived under an abusive matriarch/patriarch all their lives don't always have it in them to treat them well once they become incapacitated.

This also happens in couples where one spouse was very abusive when well, once they need care they can become victims of elder abuse by the spouse they spent 60 years beating

Famalam13 · 29/01/2017 13:22

So true twins!

dodobedoop · 29/01/2017 13:24

I'm a hospital social worker and have worked with hundreds of patients and their families. I agree, it is easy to be judgemental in respect of families not supporting their parents, but there are many different reasons that this does not happen.

Work commitments, family commitments all affect ability to support parents. Also, the complexity of the patients needs means that commissioned home care support or re-ablement services are needed to ensure the patient is discharged safely.

Sometimes families have the best of intentions, but when their loved one returns home, often with very different needs, they just cannot cope. So often, the family provide additional support, shopping, domestic tasks and actually just spending time with their parent, which is as valuable as doing the hands on stuff.

whatsthepointofmorgan · 29/01/2017 13:24

So yes, I am allowed to form an opinion on it and ask what others think. If you don't like me asking that move along to a different thread.

It would be boring if we all agreed with one another.

Chippednailvarnishing · 29/01/2017 13:25

A lot of multigenerational living can also be down to poverty. I have a colleague who has 9 people back home housed in a shack in the Philippines. Which means ironically, that her ill sibling as to stay in hospital as there's no room for her and her medical equipment.