Bed blocking in hospitals

[SummitLove]

AIBU to think that actually a lot of this situation is being caused by families taking no, or very little responsibility, in caring for their elderly relatives?

Are we, as a society, now in a situation where many of us our so entitled we just expect social services or the health services to provide everything? Seems to have been a huge shift from families being involved in care to families expecting others to provide care for elderly relatives.

Mooching over this thought today and would love to hear responses from both sides.

Have three elderly people near us (one couple and one single) that we help out as their families appear to have washed their hands of them. They rarely visit, don't organise simple things like online shopping, or come and help with trimming the hedges in the summer. Honestly, it's been so cold these past few days that I would have expected someone to have called or check in on them.

I also hate the term 'Bed blocking'.

The shortage of hospital beds is due an increased population and more people living longer because of better health care (oh the irony!) while sadly, hospital beds, convalescent homes and social care have been drastically cut. It all boils down to lack of money.

Most people work until retirement age so can't care for elderly, frail relatives. Many people don't want to become careers and would rather pay someone else to do it. Cups of tea and hedge trimming are one thing, changing and disposing of incontinence pads is quite another. How many people are really going to want to wipe their mum or dad's bum?

summit - would be suitable for someone who needed time off to care for someone with a ST blip. It wouldn't have helped in my situation as my mother was getting worse rather than better. I would have needed several years....though for other reasons I still wouldn't have done it - consideration for other family members, would have been awful at it, wouldn't have wanted to be a prisoner in my home.

*carers not careers

Trimming the hedges wouldn't classify someone as in need of social care and therefore, these are not the individuals who remain in hospital for longer than needed. You are extremely lucky that your work allow that and you don't seem to realise this. Many carers lose their jobs or give them up and end up in financial hardship.

Quite a bit of the bed blocking is down to the hospitals themselves and not having enough community nurses that are trained to give certain procedures at home. Speaking from experience my Fil has been in and out of hospital numerous times over the last 13 months most of his care needs are met by the family as at least 3 of us including myself come from a working in care environment. But due to his past medical history they take him in and keep him in for weeks much to his and our annoyance. We've now reached the stage we're he is refusing treatment and we as a family fully support his decision. Quite often care of an elderly relative is left to one person and that person may work full time and have a family of their own and it's a juggling act even when there is a big family.

Morgan that's a big generalisation does it include nicu and prem babies?
Not so long ago premature neonates died,until medical intervention,is that what you mean by alive far longer than natural?

Candy - my work have allowed it for three weeks, I've never used it. So not sure what that has to do with it. I was a carer before this was introduced.

Chip Not all caring requires that level of input. Not all elderly people need that level of care. There are several levels in between being well and independent and needing hoists, dressed, fed, toileted.

That's a slight derail there.
We are talking about elderly people with little to no quality of life.

My aunt has dementia. She has no children of her own and lives three hours away from me, although I am still her nearest relative. During the week I work full time and look after my mother and father who live with me. My mother has advanced dementia and can't wash, dress or feed herself and my father has had two heart attacks and diabetes. Last summer I was driving 3 hours on a Saturday morning to clean my aunt's house, go shopping, make sure she ate that day before driving back home to care for my parents. When my aunt was admitted to hospital it was decided she could no longer live on her own. Social services wanted her to live with me, we have no room and I honestly couldn't cope with anyone else to care for. So she bed-blocked until a care home could be found to take her. It isn't simply a case of "popping in to make a cup of tea".

It was me who made the comment Gimmee and I did state that medical advances are very beneficial for a lot of people. Of course I am not referring to saving the life of a child, I am referring to keeping very elderly people alive who don't want to be (my grandma).

I know it's a huge can if worms though and I am not suggesting any form of eugenics. Just commenting that my grandma has been kept alive against her best interests and this has had an immense impact on her and my aunt.

From the independent;
1.2 million carers in the UK are living in poverty, researchers have warned. Campaigners say many of the carers are providing specialist care for long hours and no pay, with little or no support financially or socially.

The research, undertaken by the New Policy Institute with funding from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, found that among people providing 20 hours of care or more each week, 37 per cent are living in poverty. By comparison, the rate stands at 20 per cent for non-carers.

It is believed the issue is particularly impacting on women as they are more likely to be carers due to traditional gender roles and longer lifespans, meaning 12 per cent of women are informal carers, compared to 8 per cent of men.

I think silentp has a point actually

had two family members (both great grandparents) who couldn't bear to have intimate care done by relatives, it stripped them of any shred of dignity :-(

Those of you blaming medicine for keeping too many people alive for too long - do you opt out of medical care yourselves?

We are also keeping people alive far longer than is 'natural'. Advances in medicine are incredible for an awful lot of people but for my grandma they have just prolonged her suffering. Back when she had moments of clarity she said she would rather be dead but the doctors keep her going. Treatment can't be stopped because she isn't compus mentis enough to make that decision.

Yep. Elderly.
Thought I'd dreamt things for a minute there

Um how ridiculous. Mid twenties with a young family. Dad was late fifties when he had to go into a home. No one could give him the round the clock care he needed as it just wasn't possible. He then had to go into hospital for 2 months as he sustained injuries in the home he was in (he tried to be mobile and wouldn't cooperate with family and staff as he was still young) he died 2 years after entering a care home. Btw he paid for it all himself and will never claim his pension etc, so not a financial strain on the government etc.
Don't be so ignorant. Every case is unique

Not all caring requires that level of input

But when Heir upthread pointed out that she couldn't lift her mother, your suggestion was tea and switching on the heating.

Me and dp with not be looking after his parents who abused him as a child when they are elderly or if they became ill. He is nc for a reason, plus we live on the border of Scotland and don't drive while they live down past London on the coast.

Also my nan lives on border of wales but has refused to talk to me for religious reasons since my first borns funeral. I would help when she is ill if I could as my parents cant always help although with the distance and a young child it would be hard but she absolutely and unequivocally would not want me there. She has said this to my parents on more than one occasion, and sadly has refused to meet her great grand daughter for the same religious reason she wont speak to me.

Saying that I did everything I could a few years ago to help my elderly neighbour get out of hospital when she had a serious accident where a car drove into her. They wouldn't move her to a recovery place because she had a home to come back to and couldn't afford a home but she spent months on a ward learning how to walk again. They then wouldn't discharge her for another month because she needed special equipment at home when she returned and it took them over a month to deliver it. It drove her, me and my partner mental because we all wanted her home despite the fact having her home for the first couple of months was extremely hard work.

I will be caring for my parents when they get old despite the distance although I wont be able to visit as often as I would like. Saying that if my daughter became ill I wouldn't expect their neighbours to know but I would be prioritising her care. Sounds heartless saying it but I chose to bring my DD into the world, she is my priority.

As others have said it isn't always the families fault, and in instances where the family are obviously not caring there may well be a reason that the person simply hasn't disclosed. Sorry for your neighbours though.

*My DM is currently a "bed blocker".

She is in her late 80s and has been in hospital since the end of last month when she was admitted with a chest infection. Prior to that she had a stroke which has left her housebound, and needing help with toileting, washing and simply getting from her bed to the chair where she spends her days. She has been deemed fit for discharge for at least a fortnight now, but she needs carers to visit 4x a day. If you ask the hospital they say they're waiting for SS to contact them to confirm a care package is in place. If you ask SS they say they're waiting to hear from the hospital for a definite date of discharge so they can organise the start of care. The communication is terrible; we do what we can, but it's like pulling teeth.

My DB lives nearby, alone, and is an absolute saint - he works FT, but goes to see her before and after work when she's at home, does all her shopping, etc. But she need two people working together to do a lot of the things she needs, and anyway, he can't give up his job - he has to live.

I live two hours away, and I have a husband and grown children who also need me. I feel caught between a rock and a hard place; I ring her often, and visit when I can, but it just wouldn't be possible for me to drop everything and become a carer, even if I had the balls to take it on, which I don't.

DM is aware of her situation, and we've had many conversations where she has told me she wishes she had died when she had her stroke because she's no use to anybody and is just using resources, care and a bed that would be better used for someone who was going to get better.

It's really not straightforward at all.*

^^ this is very typical of many people's situation and I agree with others,
some family members who are doing all they can for an elderly relative are on their knees by time the person gets admitted to hospital and just can't cope with the relative being discharged without a pack of care in place.

Care for the elderly problems seem to be peculiar only to the predominantly white western world, strange how other cultures take it all in their stride.

Having once worked in elderly care homes I was astounded how there could be so many old and frail folk, drugged up and staring vacantly at a communal TV dribbling, and pissing into nappies.. most of whom having little or no visitors or family. It certainly is sobering at first sight. Not my idea of retirement thanks!

It did cross my mind that even sweet old people might have not been so nice all their lives, and possibly this was karma in operation. Who knows?

I'm not sure that being a decent and kind person will preclude most from such an ending, for reasons already posted, in this rat race few have the luxury of withdrawing from slave jobs to care for an elderly relative..catch 22!

Bed blocking seems to be the in thing to break the cycle of endless paramedic visits and hospital admissions. Although I'm sure some are hoping to protect their inheritance by getting the social to pay care costs, which might work in isolated cases, but the gov are not that stupid and therefore most will have to sell their properties to pay for nursing home stays.

Those of you blaming medicine for keeping too many people alive for too long - do you opt out of medical care yourselves?

I would be happy to receive medical care as long as it enabled me to have a decent quality of life.
A decent quality of life obviously means different things to different people.
To me: Decent quality would = Being able to recognise my loved ones, being able to take pleasure in social interacting with those loved ones, manageable pain.
If those needs werent met, then in answer to your question, no, I wouldn't want my life prolonged and I wouldn't want my children to have to care for me.
Obviously that's my opinion and I wouldn't expect people to agree with me. So I respect their opinions as well.

Chip The point I was making that whilst someone can't do one thing, Ie. lifting, they are still able to provide other types of care - it doesn't all automatically fall to other people because Heir can't do the lifting. She still does other things, even though it's got to be difficult particularly with a baby.

I would be happy to receive medical care as long as it enabled me to have a decent quality of life.

Oh come on! Some people make a full recovery from a stroke, others with the same presentation will need care.. you think there's some cross-road moment where it's clear?

My mum bed-blocked for 5 days. The hospital wanted to discharge her but said she wasn't able to look after herself for at least a week and needed someone with her.

There were no places available in temporary care (and besides, Mum didn't want to go to a care home) and I couldn't get time off work at such short notice, so mum refused to be discharged until the following week, when I was available to move in with her for a couple of weeks while she completed her recovery.

There must be hundreds of other cases like ours, where the patient no longer needs to be in hospital, but is not yet fit to cope on their own.

In the not too distant past, there were convalescent homes for people in the final stages of recovery. But sadly they all seem to have closed down.

I had to use up 6 days of my paid leave and take a further 3 days unpaid leave in order to look after mum. It's not easy when you work full time.

Zaf Our local fire service are now providing "care for the elderly" visits apparently. They attend the repeat 999 callers to check up on them and have a chat, resettle them and then leave.

I guess it's one way to ensure there are no medical needs that require an ambulance and give the elderly person some of the care they require without a trip to hospital.

My mum and dad live 500 miles away. My mum has never learnt to drive. They went bankrupt 3 times and pissed my dads pension away on an apartment in Europe, and they're in debt up to their eyeballs due to over stretching themselves to buy the place in Europe. Which is now negative equity. They've never helped us one whit, either through constant lack of funds or not having any interest in their gc on visits. The constant lecture of how we should move to be nearer them and the guilt trip to therrin is the only nod to provision for the moment one of them or both can't care for themselves. We have plenty of room for them but my mum is Adamant (not the Prince Charming era! Thanks autocorrect) she won't come nearer us as 'she hates the area'. So am I meant to uproot my family, jobs, schooling op?

The world has changed but old people are still stubborn! I will quite happily care for thrm if the come to us, but not the other way round. That's ridiculous, particularly when their situation is of their own doing.

I'm sure a frail 95 year old who's suffered a stroke will have a vastly different outcome to say, a 60 who suffers a stroke.