It's been just over a week, and what a week. Amazing. So good. The best.

[amispartacus]

Follow up from previous thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2837382-Donald-Trump-the-first-week-is-BAD-What-next-Come-all-ye-Beautifuls?

Talking of camps, the original Boer War concentration camps are a stark reminder of how governments can kill their own citizens much more easily and in much larger numbers than terrorists can.

By far the largest terrorist attack I can think of (though I'm willing to be educated), is 9/11, with 2,977 people killed.

Boer War concentration camps were intended as internment camps not deliberate extermination camps. But in less than 2 years they killed:

• at least 14,000, but probably in excess of 20,000, black people of whom 81% were children
• 28,000 white people, of whom 22,000 were children

www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/09/paulharris.theobserver
www.sahistory.org.za/topic/women-children-white-concentration-camps-during-anglo-boer-war-1900-1902
www.sahistory.org.za/topic/black-concentration-camps-during-anglo-boer-war-2-1900-1902

NB I'm not comparing these to immigration detention camps or saying that camps as a tool are special. My point is that terrorists are limited in how many of us they can kill; our own governments aren't.

I wonder if Charles is secretly on Twitter and gets messages about what Trump says.

Here is a reuters article from 2011 about the power to target individuals, foriegn and American, that is held by a subgroup of the national security council. How long before this is used by trump's people to secretly take out people who do not agree with them on the grounds that they are supportive of terrorism

www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-killlist-idUSTRE79475C20111005

The Royal family have hosted people they loathed before. Notably Ceaucescu in 1991.

before the couple arrived in London on the next leg of a European tour, former French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing telephoned Buckingham Palace to warn Queen Elizabeth. Giscard d'Estaing described how lamps, vases, ashtrays and bathroom fittings had been removed. "It was as if burglars had moved in for a whole summer," he told the BBC.

Ceausescu's security officials also reportedly gouged holes in the walls looking for bugging devices. The queen ordered palace security officers to keep a close watch on the couple. The program said the queen later described the visit as the worst three days of her life.
articles.latimes.com/1991-05-13/news/mn-1168_1_queen-elizabeth

I think we should wheel out Eugenie and Beatrice to meet Trump, they will earn the right to live off the civil list for the rest of their lives and he gets to hold hands going down slopes with a real princess. Job done!

GingerIvy thanks for the Tapper article, and interesting to see Reagan's take on holocaust deniers.
It was a question of morality on those days.

If there are loads of tit for at bans on Americans, isn't this going to cause a massive mess for many British people who through some quirk also hold American nationality, like our own foreign secretary?

I have shamelessly plagiarised Spudlet's email and sent it to my MP.

Not holding my breath for any action from him though - he seems to have spent most of his time since election shagging another MP behind his wife's back.

Now if Boris Johnson was prevented from doing his job as Foreign Secretary, it might be a blessing. He was supposed to be renouncing his American citizenship, but I gather he never got round to it.

I assumed he was holding onto it in the hope the great Trumpersaurus was going to to give him a job. Maybe dodged a bullet there.

So fancy having your social media checked out before you visit the USA?

edition.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/donald-trump-immigrant-policy-social-media-contacts/index.html

I too have written to my MP. Everything is moving so quickly, this thread is nearly full again. I'm finding it hard to keep up because I want to read everyone's links, knowledge is power etc...

I'd be straight in the slammer if they checked who I'm following on Twitter right now. It is just a load of people critical of Trump.

Ditto Rousette - don't think I've contributed much here at all but I really value these threads. Thank you all for posting such interesting and valuable articles and opinion pieces.

I'm not going to be able to join amy protests for the forseeable future but will keep up to date as to when and where and will do my utmost to have my voice heard.

In that vein, I've also written to my MP (Labour and ignored me when I last wrote to him so not holding my breath).

Roussette thanks for the thread.
There's another one up about cancelling holidays to US.
Not many posts, but Chileans and South Africans do have a less fascisty govt now partially because Europeans boycotted their goods and services en masse.

bigbadgers

It's extremely unlikely that Govt officials would be telling a labour union's officials what to write. Both the ICE and BP unions endorsed Trump so it's not surprising they have written such a statement.

I belonged to a Govt Employee labour union for 35 years. No way in hell did the govt ever tell my union what to write in a statement. Not even in the Bush/Cheney or Reagan years.

Miller also noted on Saturday that Trump administration officials are discussing the possibility of asking foreign visitors to disclose all websites and social media sites they visit, and to share the contacts in their cell phones

I assumed they already knew all this!

Seriously - is that how you catch terrorists - by asking them to hand over their phone contacts - or is it more a way to reduce freedom of speech and harass people?

(That was from amisparticus' link above)

Fair enough acrossthepond. I am just over cynical sometimes :o

Thanks woman but this thread is amispartacus's baby. I can barely keep up which is annoying me... had to cook roast pork which took my time away, now lots of catching up to do!

I really appreciate all the interesting links and imparting of knowledge in here. I feel like the more I know, the more empowered I will feel. Interestingly, I was out with friends last night and I just felt I knew so much compared to them (that is not boasting BTW, it's just that for some people unless it affects them directly they aren't that interested which is fair enough, we're all different...)

So fancy having your social media checked out before you visit the USA?

It's a good thing I'm not planning on visiting in the next 4/8 years.

Over 250,000 on the petition to keep the Orange One away. I so much want it to reach the one million mark.

Over 6,000 signed the petition since I last posted. Incredible strength of feeling

On subject of Trump filing for re-election (but apparently not saying he'll definitely run ) I forgot link I meant to include in my post. Which is now over 10 pages ago...

www.ibtimes.com/will-donald-trump-win-again-2020-president-authorizes-fundraising-next-election-2479421

Admittedly I had read a few pages on before the exhaustion/Lurgy!nap overtook me, but even so... glad to be a speed-reader...

We were planning to visit the US in the next 2/3 years but won't do so now. Not because we have anything to hide but because we find Trump, his policies and actions abhorrent.

I am disgusted that Theresa May only appears to be concerned about the ban if it affects UK citizens. She should be strongly opposing it on grounds of Human Rights and xenophobia. History, it seems, has taught her nothing.

I am incredulous that she held his hand too. I hoped fervently that it was a camera angle that just made it appear so, but no, she did it. Submissive and weak. She looked like a compliant little girl. I have no admiration for Thatcher but she would never have done that, never have appeared so spineless.