to still be cross about the outcome of the EU referendum?

[mynamesnotsam]

I'm still so angry and can't forgive those who voted to leave. After the result there was much talk of how the two sides must put aside their differences but I don't feel there has been any attempt to try to appease the 48.1% of people who voted to stay. I also want to rip the head off any one who says it's the will of the people. They should be legally obligated to say it's the will of 51.9 % of the people who voted. If the vote had gone the other way you can bet that UKIP would still be making a huge fuss about it but remainers are expected to "just get over it"!

I have seen plenty of leavers deny any correlation between education and the vote - including you, Wrong

Bizarre. Where, please quote me? Or anyone else.

I have been trawling through the polls from the Ashcroft poll which was done, I believe, on the day of the referendum and have a pretty good understanding of the demographics. I don't know why you would say that - it is not something I have ever claimed.

As I say, please quote or link.

To be fair, when I have read that remainers have pointed out that being less educated meant people voted to leave, they have been shouted down by the leavers themselves who would post 'are you calling us thick' type responses

I think it possibly depends how it is said, and whether any of the false conclusions I mentioned above are being drawn.

I would have thought a straightforward discussion of the correlation between education and vote would be fairly uncontroversial (although now birdy tells me I have been saying the opposite all along. I don't know, perhaps my alter ego has been posting in my sleep).

Oh God, I'm not going to go through all the many arguments about this, but I know many leavers have refused to accept it: "polls are useless now", "how do they know, I've never been asked?" "I'm highly educated and I voted leave" "Ashcroft has his own agenda".

I clearly remember arguing with you about it many times. I apologise if I wrongly thought you were one who denied it, Wrong. Maybe minimize would be a better word?

Certainly some leavers hate any talk of there being any correlation between education and the leave vote and dismiss it as irrelevant.

Meh, I would find it annoying too if I were a leaver.

Thank you birdy. I really wouldn't have minimised it - as above, I might have argued with the conclusions drawn, but that is a very different thing.

I have actually spent many hours looking at the various studies. I disagree with people who say they are worthless. I think it's a mistake to see them as 100% accurate, and they should be interpreted with caution, particularly those that throw up results which are way off kilter with all the others.

Obvs they are not totally accurate otherwise remain would have got more votes at the referendum. But they do show trends, and particularly so if many polls all agree.

We're always arguing. Im not an arguer in real life, honest.

I have to say - (and this is not personal or meant to be insulting) - I am absolute certain that Brexit is disastrous, for me, my family, and for the country, and europe too. I find it so unutterably ...sad. This is why it IS horribly heated sometimes, and this is why people get so upset or angry at the glib jibes, the we won get over its, or the refusal to debate.

(I know that many leavers feel equally strongly that not brexitting would be more of a disaster but try as I might, I just cant get my head around that!.)

Well It is quite interesting with the Lib Dems. Their anti Hard Brexit stance seems to be having an impact. A massive swing in the Richmond by election against the Tories and a number of recent council by-election victories with a massive swing the latest being Brinsworth and Catcliffe in Rotherham a couple of days ago coming from 4th place last time to 4 times as many votes as any other party this time taking the seat from Labour and a large Leave area.

It is the 27th net gain in council by-elections for the Liberal Democrats since May, while the next best performing party in British politics has just three net gains over the same period. It will be interesting to see if this trend continues at the pace it has so far and we will get an idea in the local elections in May.

May, while the next best performing party in British politics has just three net gains over the same period

Those in government always do worse in by elections etc than opposition.

People often vote differently in council elections than they would in a GE.

Richmond was a strange one as until Goldsmith it had actually been LibDem for a number of years.

I know a number of intelligent people who voted Brexit for perfectly legitimate, well-thought-out reasons: the lack of democratic accountabilitiy at the heart of the EU; the mission creep; the disaster of the euro; the inequitable common agricultural policy that sees rich landowners receive handouts for turning their forests into "farming land"; the appalling way Greece has been treated; the lack of a coherent policy on refugees; and the way the EU has operated as a cartel to the detriment of developing economies in Africa and elsewhere.

All good reasons. But I don't think they thought through the consequences of the vote. For the UK, leaving the UK will be a disaster - we are already seeing Theresa May having to kowtow to dubious leaders like Trump and Erdogan because she is so desperate to do trade deals once we're out of the single market. We are going to be in such a weak position. The future frightens me.

And the awful thing is, this huge huge decision has been based on a single vote - a snapshot of how the electorate felt on a single day last June. Would the result have been the same if it had been held a week earlier or a week later? It seems such a slight foundation on which to make this enormous change that will affect our country for generations to come.

It absolutely should not have been the case that this could pass based on less than 50% of the voting age population voting for it (which obviously it didn't get).

The thing that pisses me off are definitely all the 'will of the people' bullshit. Does that mean the remainers aren't people? The people who didn't vote and could have, aren't people or that anybody under the age of 18 isn't a person?

And no, it isn't the will of the people to pull out of the single market...or at least you have no evidence whatsoever that it is.

The only thing that makes any of it bearable is that it must be so much worse to be an American right now. Anti-Trump rallies are painted as anti-democratic and he didn't even win the popular vote. In a straight up decision between two people, the one with the most votes lost.

Totally fucked up.

The other significant factor predicting a leave vote is age. I seems to me that older people are more likely to be racist. I have no evidence to back this up (apart from a few dubious internet pages and studies) but observing the world around me that seems the case. I think the past was a different world to today, out-and-out racism was perfectly acceptable and not even illegal. This is the world they grew up in and opinion formed, although admittedly a world some of them did change for the better.

The other thing that might drive an older persons vote is that they have less to lose. They don't need a job because they are retired, they have a secure home, it's only really price rises that would have a direct affect on them.

Do you not think older people might have children or grandchildren that they care about fake?

All of those were part of my reasoning hack.

I'm a bit non-plussed that anyone truly believes TM is dealing with Trump, Erdogan, Netanyahu etc any more diffidently than DC would have if Remain had won, especially given his performance re the Chinese and the Saudis.

Getting rid of DC and GO was an added bonus for me and so far I much prefer the new guard given other people insist on voting Tory.

I think Cameron might not have been quite so crass about meeting Trump and Erdogan. I don't think he would have gone running there in the same way.

It's gone very quiet on here. I know I am feeling pretty down about it all and just can't believe that MPs are not really being given a chance to debate things properly. It seems so unfair for such a huge decision and I just feel sad all the time, for myself, but even more for my children.

For the record, I don't think any political leader would have rushed off to see Trump if we weren't in the brexit mess we are in. The two things are linked.

I just feel sad all the time, for myself, but even more for my children

I feel exactly the same, and angry about all the opportunities they will lose.

I don't think any political leader would have rushed off to see Trump if we weren't in the brexit mess we are in

No, me neither. Nobody else in the EU has felt the need to go sucking up to him. I really don't see what choice we have though.

This thing that you've got to be all tolerant about the result even of you are a remainer is bollocks anyway. Tolerance doesn't mean tolerating intolerance. I don't have to respect any vote based on intolerance of others - which a lot of Brexit votes were. It's clear it's going to be crap for the country in the long run anyway economically and once the tories do away with environmental and employment protection - and I'm entitled to be as pissed off and intolerant about that as I want to be.