to still be cross about the outcome of the EU referendum?

[mynamesnotsam]

I'm still so angry and can't forgive those who voted to leave. After the result there was much talk of how the two sides must put aside their differences but I don't feel there has been any attempt to try to appease the 48.1% of people who voted to stay. I also want to rip the head off any one who says it's the will of the people. They should be legally obligated to say it's the will of 51.9 % of the people who voted. If the vote had gone the other way you can bet that UKIP would still be making a huge fuss about it but remainers are expected to "just get over it"!

There is a political party that has finally found its calling, the Liberal Democrats, who just might sling the brakes on the unfolding car-crash.

You mean the party with only 9 MPs yet they still couldn't whip all to vote against triggering as 2 abstained.

Oh and the party who have recently said that they would go back into coalition with the Tories again. That LibDem party.

In my view, name-calling and insults from remainers or leavers is unhelpful, divisive and damaging.

And yet I've only ever seen you call out remainers for it, (and I've seen you on lots of threads where their are insults and name calling particularly the Brexit Arms)

I am beginning to feel that it is fruitless to try to argue with people who are so convinced that they are the voices of tolerances and liberalism that it is okay for them to treat others in an intolerant and illiberal way.

That's an insult, no? It's not exactly helpful, uniting or restorative talk, is it? Plus it's nonsense - I don't know any remainer who would claim to be the 'voice of tolerance and liberalism' - (not sure where that's come from, unless you are extrapolating from one poster to judge all) and its even more nonsense to say they are 'treating others in an intolerant and illiberal way'.

I have found arguements on both sides to be very interesting

But at times there have been posters whose idea of a debate is to say "suck it up butter cup"...i dont feel that people like that are listening or ones that say 'you can move' or that gem 'fuck off to another country then'

There have been generalisations and insults on both sides...i wish people would learn to use the word 'some'

draylon

I meant people on the threads

I usually vote tory but i voted lib dem last time...and look what happened!!

Oh yeah and while i am on the subjects of insults, nothing crowns

'Traitors' and 'enemies of the people' ffs

You all just don't understand - this is one of those irregular verbs, OK?

I am beginning to feel that it is fruitless to try to argue with people who are so convinced that they are the voices of tolerances and liberalism that it is okay for them to treat others in an intolerant and illiberal way

That's an insult, no? It's not exactly helpful, uniting or restorative talk, is it? Plus it's nonsense - I don't know any remainer who would claim to be the 'voice of tolerance and liberalism' - (not sure where that's come from, unless you are extrapolating from one poster to judge all) and its even more nonsense to say they are 'treating others in an intolerant and illiberal way'

I see it as less of an insult and more of a critism

I think there is somewhat of a difference between calling people stupid, and criticising them for calling people stupid.

As to where I get the "tolerance and liberalism" malarky from, well that is how I see much of the more militant remain folk present themselves - that they are for tolerance, being outward-looking, respecting and celebrating differences etc etc. Then I see the very same people displaying exactly the opposite of these values to people who voted differently to them.

I am not talking about all remain voters - there are plenty of remain voters, including on here, who do not do this. I am talking about the ones who do do this.

You may not have observed this phenomenon of some remainers presenting themselves as the voice of tolerance and liberalism. I have.

Some analysis here of voting patterns here today.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

Interesting link! Struggling to make sense of this - The former campaign director of Vote Leave, Dominic Cummings, argues that the better educated are more prone to holding irrational political opinions because they are more driven by fashion and a group mentality

Run that by me again, Dominic Cummings?

I would like to say that I think D Cummings was, on this occasion, talking out of his arse

Happy birdy?

It doesn't make sense. PhD and MBA here we voted off the back of the information and data that we could find. I don't even know how a vote driven by fashion would work.

Well, he's flailing about in the face of some pretty clear evidence, isn't he? Like all the Leavers who got all huffy and offended that in general, the better educated you were, the more likely you were to vote Remain - the problem is that statistic has been treated as though it's a mean old insult, rather than an actual fact, and those who've cited it have therefore been castigated as elitist or whatever - Cummings now has to deal with the inalienable fact that it's actually true. And he's done a bit of a cack-handed job. Surprise.

It's another example of confusion over facts and opinions, really.

the problem is that statistic has been treated as though it's a mean old insult

Tbf the way it is used is often as an insult.

Many a time the words, thick, stupid, uneducated are thrown around.

Well, he's flailing about in the face of some pretty clear evidence, isn't he? Like all the Leavers who got all huffy and offended that in general, the better educated you were, the more likely you were to vote Remain - the problem is that statistic has been treated as though it's a mean old insult, rather than an actual fact, and those who've cited it have therefore been castigated as elitist or whatever

Can you provide me evidence of leavers denying that the data shows the more educated you are, the more likely to vote remain?

I don't think people have been saying that. What they have been arguing against is the drawing of the conclusions that

1. less educated means stupid
2. less educated means "answered the exam referendum question wrongly
3. less educated means their votes should have less value than those of more educated people.

Also, education is a marker for lots of other characteristics, as has been said a million times - class, opportunities, job prospects, social mileiu (sp?). I think what people are unhappy about is the rather facile (can I say that birdy?) reduction of education demographic differences to "remain voters are cleverer and know more than leave voters".

It's another example of confusion over facts and opinions, really

Absolutely

But so are the words hysterical, toddlers, remoaners, elites, undemocratic, illiberal.

If we are to complain about insults and name-calling, rather than engage in proper debate, then I would like to see those being picked up as well.

Meh, I'm whistling in the wind, I know.

It's another example of confusion over facts and opinions, really

So what is the fact?

That there is a strong correlation between education and whether you voted leave or remain.

What is the opinion?

That this means if you voted leave you are stupid.
That the remain vote was correct because it was the one made by more educated people.
That less educated people shouldn't play an equal part in our democracy.
That there are not a large number of other differences between more educated and less educated people which could explain the difference in voting patterns (correlation does not equal causation).

These are all opinions, not facts.

In support of the last point, a little discussed bit of data is that highly educated people in lower education areas (such as moi) are more likely to vote leave than people of the same education in high education areas. How to explain that? So not all quite as simple, really.

I have seen plenty of leavers deny any correlation between education and the vote - including you, Wrong.

I think the problem is that leavers say some incredibly stupid things. I mean, you have threads where 'remoaners' are genuinely worried about their homes and their jobs yet you get dozens of leave posters saying 'get over it', 'we won' 'leave now, go to N Korea, you're anti-democratic etc. etc.

Ok, so maybe these posters aren't all thick, stupid, or uneducated but they're certainly not very nice.

Do we think Maria is a brexiter?

Joke!

I am the most happiest girl on earth

Not for long honey, you wait til the economy starts crumbling around you.