To wonder why domestic violence is seen as a womans issue and abused men are often ignored

[IHaveArrivedAtABadTime]

Not trying to start an argument, am just curious that's all.

40% of domestic violence victims are men yet male victims seemed to be ignored a lot of the time.

Women have shelters and refuges but there seems to be little in place to help abused men. I've just googled help for male dv victims in my city and there's nothing

AIBU to think there should be more help for male victims and we should be working on removing the stigma attached to being a male victim?

"You haven't explained why you think it okay to tell men to sort it to themselves as it is nothing to do with women, nor have you said how you would feel if, when getting support for female victims, a man told you it was nothing to do with them."

I'' happy to answer this. Of course I would have sympathy with and want to help a male victim of domestic violence. My issue is that men seem to think it is up to women to provide the support for men. And appear to blame women for there not being as much support as there should be. When men have actually been in a better position, because they generally have more money, power and influence to do something about it.

It is also significant that the need for support for men only comes up in the context of women needing support. Rather like all the men currently so very exercised over the rights of women in the Middle East.............

Two issues are being conflated here that aren't the same.

So, man is a victim it's the abuser's fault. When a woman is a victim, it's society (and the abuser).

"I do not say that because I am biased."

Haha. Awesome.

"the statistic is two women a week are killed by a current or former partner, so women are who I'll be focusing on ... I do not say that because I am biased."

Ummm.

For those two women who are killed there's one man, or, as I like to put it, 3 people.

Er no one man a week is not killed by his current or former partner

It is also significant that the need for support for men only comes up in the context of women needing support. Rather like all the men currently so very exercised over the rights of women in the Middle East.............

Absolutely - it's quite possible to talk about men needing support without comparing the numbers of men's and women's refuges.

When a woman is a victim, it's society (and the abuser)

Yes. Because domestic violence is gendered and we live in a patriarchal society. Glad you've grasped it now.

This thread reminds me of the good old chestnut 'there shouldn't be a mumsnet because they haven't set up a dadsnet too, it's anti men'.

Witness plenty of newspaper articles bewailing the inequality, yet a huge, echoing lack of men stepping up to set up and use a similar service. (Yes, I know mn has provided the dadsnet section here in response to this, it's very quiet. Other dn type forums also mostly v quiet. The issue is not that the resource is not available.)

But it always comes down to it's not nice for women to organise, fight for and provide for women's needs unless they are seen to be aware of and equally fighting for and providing for everyone else's needs at the same time.

sanscomic, men are physically and (for the moment) financially more powerful than women. They are less likely to be responsible for children.

Leaving aside all behavioural analysis, this means that they are more likely to seriously harm women when they are violent and the effects of their violence have wider consequences. This makes violence against women a societal problem.

That is a completely objective fact and has nothing to do with victim blaming or sexism.

Thanks for the answer.

"My issue is that men seem to think it is up to women to provide the support for men. And appear to blame women for there not being as much support as there should be. When men have actually been in a better position, because they generally have more money, power and influence to do something about it."

Certainly not on this thread. I don't mean that sarcastically or trying to make a snide point. I mean that no one has said "why aren't women providing support for male victims". Originally some people said, 'yes' it seems men do need support too. No one has blamed women or feminists or any such thing.

What I've felt the need to do is question why there's such a prevalent "fuck the men" attitude and a 'them and us' as opposed to, as the former police officer said, "just, you know, something for civilised society to take seriously."

@Merrymouse - true. Yet nearly every post here with opinions similar to yours has contrasted femlae vs male victim statistics.

Are you saying that when a victim of DV is male, there is no effect on society? It seems that you are.

@Bibblewanda

metro.co.uk/2016/01/25/there-are-parts-of-britain-where-more-men-are-killed-by-women-in-domestic-violence-5643040/

Not exactly peer reviewed statistical analysis, but I assume they've done some fact checking.

@venusinscorpio ODFOD. Why won't MN add a 'block user' option. Would be wonderful!

----------------------

tl;dr

no one, especially me, has said that bad women are ignoring men. No one has said it's the feminists fault. No one has disputed the female victim stats or who is likely responsible for them or that women had to fight for these rights, laws and refuges / support. No one has said anything should be taken away from women.

The only thing that has been suggested is that support for men is lacking.

@rumblingDMexploitingbstds

If there's one thing this thread has proved, it's that many MNers are anti-men.

Are you saying that when a victim of DV is male, there is no effect on society? It seems that you are.

If they and their children aren't being made homeless and they still have all their teeth because they can fight back, no, there isn't an equivalent effect on society.

Women and men require different services. You might also be shocked to learn that maternity wards are geared towards women delivering babies.

Why would all these perpetrators go to the trouble of pretending to be victims and everything that goes along with being a male victim - stigma, shame, etc?

IME Because a lot of them actually like being able to tell people their ex was a nut job,
A lot of them actually like being in a position to use the courts to further abuse their victim.
A lot of them like having an excuse to walk away without looking like a tosser
A lot of them like having the sympathy vote when starting dating again

Male victims of abuse do not tend to be treated in the same way as female victims do.

You do not often see male victims at risk of losing their kids for being unable to protect them it's not uncommen with female victims
You do not often see male victims of abuse being refused fact finding hearings in familŷ court it happens in lots and lots of cases with female victims
You do not often see male victims of abuse being threatened with loss of shared care when trying to protect their children it is usually the reverse. Granted a man is less likely to end up with day to day care but when you throw in a female 'abuser' all bets are off this is very different than my recent experience with male abusers
A male victim talking about abuse to a female date prospect will usually elicit sympathy where a female one will often be dismissed as a bunny boiler
A male victim will very rarely hear that they are just a bitter spiteful ex upset because their abuser has moved on yet it appears to be the default with women.
Violent women tend to be treated more harshly than violent men.

Of all the cases I can think of off the top of my head where murder was involved in a dv context the women perpetrators all recieved longer sentences, I haven't done a comparasion for awhile so that could have changed.
Men do not generally get treated as if hysteria exaggeration or mental health are the issues with them when reporting abuse.

Obviously that's just my experance.

Incidentally my experance also echos the experance of the other poster regarding them using it to detract from their own abusive behaviour

sans comic, you are clearly fighting a losing battle here then. Maybe start fundraising and set up your own refuge?

Yes and everyone has acknowledged that some men can also be victims of domestic violence, SansComic. It just is largely a gendered issue for society as we live in a patriarchal society where male violence is a problem. There's no escaping that. The existence of some female abusers of men does not disprove it. And the pattern of violence, abuse and coercive control tends to be different.

You haven't explained why you think it okay to tell men to sort it to themselves as it is nothing to do with women

Women have always sorted themselves out. We didn't get anything handed to us. we worked for it. Why aren;'t men doing the same?

@Merrymouse

"you are clearly fighting a losing battle here then."

Sadly true.

"Maybe start fundraising and set up your own refuge?"

As you have for women?

I do a lot of charity work. One charity though as opposed to spreading it more thinly. It's non-gendered.

Despite being a woman, I couldn't bring myself to be on the founding committee for "Female Victims of x Natural Disaster". We provide for families.

@User12345 - have we? Not very well according to the statistics regularly quoted.

Despite being a woman, I couldn't bring myself to be on the founding committee for "Female Victims of x Natural Disaster"

Why not?

Women often need specific services that men don't.

You don't seem to be able to comprehend the idea that different people need different help.

what is wrong with having charities that provide support to defined groups? There are specific charities to support men e.g. men's cancer charities.

Lots of muddyimng of the waters going on here.

Women have fundraised and campaigned for DV shelters because the men didnt do it.
They are women only because of PTSD, and some of the women are rape survivors. they want a safe space.

that does nopt mean that women dont care about male victoms of DV. Rape Crisis and Womens Aid give practical support for male Rape Crisis hotlines.
They have to because men dont support male Rap Crisis and DV shelters
They dont campaign for men and they dont fundraise for men and thats despite having more economic power.

Is this a case of men trying to culturally appropriate women's victim-hood? because that would really piss MN off and you would get a lot of hateful responses.

Its a lot harder for men to be believed because they are usually the physically stronger of the two. And even if the man was believed he would then be looked down on as being a 'weakling'. Maybe men don't need refugees as much as women but they do need equality of help.

There didnt used to be any help for women,.
Women organised and funded that help.
They also give practical support to men who want to start male Rape Crisis and DV support, we cant do any more as the money isnt there.

If people are saying men need help they need to stop raising awareness and start raising money.

Have we got a source for the asserting that one man a week is murdered by his female partner?

Why do people still come on MN to act like being part of the sisterhood is a crime?

Lundy Bancroft is essential reading for all!

@merrymouse

Women often need specific services that men don't.

And vice versa.

I completely "comprehend this". (I'm sure I haven't patronised you).

No one has spoken about the type of help 'required' simply that men seem to be under-catered for in DV.

We provide different services to different sexes and demographics. One of the first aid packages included thousands of tampons. The point is, we try to help everyone because everyone was affected by this disaster. In a similar way, if it was something I felt so passionately about, I would have wanted to support a DV charity not a Womens DV charity. This hypothetical charity may well have spent the lions share on Women, either because they are the majority of sufferers or because their needs cost more.

Yes, there are testicular cancer charities and breast cancer and all the rest. Of course I'm not saying that people shouldn't support them. I'm glad they do.

I think women have fought hard for what we have now. I don't think it should be minimised. I don't think their funding should be cut to support men or anything of the sort.

I can't find a shred of evidence on this thread to suggest anyone has said anything other than, 'men need more help than they are getting'. Can you?

I haven't refuted a single statistic about DV to women or suggested women DV victims don't deserve all the help they get and more.

It's WRAs who turned this into a them vs us and that's the part I don't understand and don't like.

SansComic
Yes men are likely to be under catered for in DV, as the shelters did not appear as a result of any Govt initioative and they werent provided for by the tax payer.

They were started and funded by women fundraising pennies at a time. Gradually they got to be more respectable and gained some tax payers funding by the mid 1980's.
But they are still not 100% funded by the taxpayer. In fact Givt funding is being cut.

Women volunteers fund Womens shelters and Rape Crisis hotlines. We cannot provide all the services needed for all the women that need them.

Please don't suggest that the feminist posters on this thread are equivalent to MRAs. It really doesn't work.