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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to think if abortion was illegal I may be dead

181 replies

Woman1980 · 24/01/2017 11:02

I've name changed as I still feel a lot of shame on this issue. Just listened to the discussion of abortion on Woman's Hour.

I was with my exH from the age of 14, got pregnant at 15 and (very much against my will) was coerced into an abortion by my parents. I had a Very much wanted DC at 17. When DC was 14 months I found I was pregnant again; exH & I had planned a sibling for DC. Some weeks later exH changed his mind; I went to the scan on my own, baby was 13.5 weeks and I went home to tell exH that I was going ahead with pg it was too late for a surgical abortion. Eventually he convinced me that he would leave me and I would ruin dc's life and I rang family planning clinic at 16 weeks distraught to arrange termination. I went alone and was left alone until the baby was out. I desperately wanted to see the baby and know the sex, but kept silent to keep up the pretence. I completely blocked it for a few years, but as dc got older I walked my missing child to school with dc everyday too ifykwim.
Both times it was clear (I'm pretty sure) that it was not my choice. However, I still totally support the right to abortion and think that perhaps I may have been forced into an unsafe abortion if the law was different. I just feel that the "pro life" movement is nothing of the sort and I cannot begin to understand it.
Does anyone else have similar experiences?

OP posts:
Dawndonnaagain · 25/01/2017 01:27

blue people don't use abortion as a form of contraception. All facts and figures bear this out Tenth and eleventh time? What an absolute nonsense. For goodness sake, if you're going to have an argument, try a valid one.
I didn't say anything about taking innocent lives. That's murder. Abortion is not murder unless, as is the case in Northern Ireland, it's about ensuring the woman has no rights. I do believe the government there has murdered a fair few women.

bluegreenyellow · 25/01/2017 01:35

but even if they did surely you would agree that its the womens choice? if not why not? and its a scientific fact that a fetus is life

Dawndonnaagain · 25/01/2017 01:40

Fortunately, it isn't a legal fact, oh and a foetus is not an independent life. Ergo, abortion isn't murder.
And yes, if they were using abortion as contraception, then it is a woman's choice. However, we have had legal abortion since 1969 and guess what, nobody appears t have had ten or eleven abortions. You really can't base any sort of legitimate argument on these premises.

TheBeastInMsRooneysRoom · 25/01/2017 01:45

Obviously everyone's free to hold any opinions they choose, but statements like "all pro-lifers are hyposcrites who don't care about babies once they're born" are absurd. As ducky described up thread, pro-life pregnancy crisis centres are providing counselling and care to women pre, during, and post abortion or birth throughout the UK. Unconditionally. Because if there isn't a viable alternative to abortion, it's not a choice at all.

Someone mentioned pro-life virtue signalling further upthread. There's been a lot of that here, but not from pro-lifers.

bluegreenyellow · 25/01/2017 01:48

blue people don't use abortion as a form of contraception. All facts and figures bear this out Tenth and eleventh time? What an absolute nonsense. For goodness sake, if you're going to have an argument, try a valid one'
untrue www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/29/AR2009102904474.html

ageingrunner · 25/01/2017 01:52

I would say that a woman has the right to end her pregnancy, be it the first time or the 11th time. I would assume that any woman having 11 terminations was highly vulnerable in some way and deserving of compassion, not condemnation.
I would also say that a woman's autonomy over her own body must be absolute, and that includes the right to make choices that other people don't like i.e. the right to abort up to the moment of birth. This is obviously not an option that most women would want to take, or would even want to think about taking, but the option should be there, because without it we lose control of our own bodies. There should also be free contraception and good effective programmes of sex and relationship education in schools with emphasis on real consent in all relationships.

bluegreenyellow · 25/01/2017 01:55

and just because its the law dose not make it right there are countless examples of unjust laws

user1484954966 · 25/01/2017 01:57

I'm pro-choice, but I can understand the pro-life position. If that is your religious belief, then you genuinely believe that abortion is murder. I think all of us would agree that murder is wrong, so it's hard to fault someone who genuinely believes that. And science has yet to provide definitive proof of when life truly begins, so it is hard to argue that they are 100% wrong in their beliefs.

However, it crosses the line when someone thinks abortions shouldn't be legal in cases of rape. Or when someone pro-life thinks the mother should sacrifice her life for the life of the unborn baby (when in many cases the baby would probably die shortly after birth anyway). And I think it's absolutely absurd how some very conservative people act like women are going around getting pregnant on purpose just because they're evil and want to have an abortion. At that point you are simply forcing your religious beliefs on other people.

I was on another forum and someone made the point that the (very conservative) pro-lifers are the same people who disapprove of birth control and sex education (which would eliminate the need for abortion), and also aren't in favour of benefits, which would be needed to care for all those unplanned children if all birth control/abortion was eliminated. It boggles the mind. Confused

HelenaDove · 25/01/2017 01:57

Ducky where is this accomodation that pro lifers provide? Because with the social housing shortage im absolutely dying to know. And the financial support? Im intrigued. Do you have a link.

Who pays for and organises the gas safety checks in this accomodation and any repairs that need to be done?

HelenaDove · 25/01/2017 01:59

And the expense of school uniforms? Do pro lifers help with that too.

user1485000332 · 25/01/2017 02:00

Flowers OP for you and your mom, she sounds incredibly strong as do you.
I don't think YABU.

I'm somewhere in the middle ground on this though if there is such a thing.
My brother would be dead if my mother had had an abortion. She was told my db would not survive pregnancy, at 9 months was told he would not survive birth, at birth he wouldn't survive the night, the next day when he saw the peads team they could find no sign of what was supposed to be wrong with him. He is now in his twenties and a well over 6ft, well built, beautiful, kind hearted human being. If my mothers religion at the time of her pregnancy had allowed abortions I would be an only child.
Personally I was raped and later miscarried, I hated the person who put that child in me but I felt it was a baby and nothing would ever have convinced me to abort them. I still now wonder about them.
My 2nd pregnancy I got pregnant with an abusive exp, being pregnant gave me the push I needed to contact a refuge get help to leave him and put my life straight for her. The pregnancy was hard but I wanted her, no matter who her dad was. My DD died as an infant, I was told during the pregnancy she was fine but she was not. Had I known how ill she was going to be I absolutely would have continued with the pregnancy anyway because she had a 10% chance of survival. I wouldn't want anyone to give up on me if I had ten percent.
I now have a completely unplanned, utter surprise, very healthy beautiful 12 week old who I adore with all my heart, abortion never came into it, never crossed my mind. I can't imagine anything that would ever convince me to have an abortion, I just don't feel it is right, but that is MY opinion. I wouldn't go to the clinic with a friend who had one to support them ever, I go quite often with close friends to support them at difficult doc/hosp appointments but they know me better than to ask me to support them there.
Saying that I have friends who have had abortions or who categorically do not want children and if their contraception failed would have an abortion without thinking. I am still friends with them. I don't judge them for it, because that is THEIR choice. I wouldn't claim to understand why they could choose that, or say I could sympathise etc, but I wouldn't try to stop them.

bluegreenyellow · 25/01/2017 02:05

helena all those things are problems however have nothing to do with the abortion debate because using that logic you could say a 1 year old will have all these problems it is not morally right to kill it.

bluegreenyellow · 25/01/2017 02:05

helena all those things are problems however have nothing to do with the abortion debate because using that logic you could say a 1 year old will have all these problems it is not morally right to kill it.

HelenaDove · 25/01/2017 02:08

It doesnt boggle my mind User. Its an abusive stance

HelenaDove · 25/01/2017 02:17

Trailer for If These Walls Could Talk.

Oswin · 25/01/2017 02:18

Beast what organisation does that? Is it the same people who had the "councilors" lie about abortion to terrified young girls?

Fucking bullshit man.

Oliversmumsarmy · 25/01/2017 02:21

I am pro choice up to a point. (If you all hate me because I do not fully agree with everyone) I know people who have had 8+ abortions just because they couldn't be bothered to use contraception. Not because contraception had failed. One has had 15. Just on a health view it can't be good for your body to have all the chemicals swilling about in your system.

What I will say is if abortion had been legal I know for a fact I wouldn't be here and consequently my children wouldn't be here. I choose my life even though the first bit was pretty shit and poverty stricken to not being given the chance to be born.

HelenaDove · 25/01/2017 02:22

Bollocks Yellow We are not talking about children who are already here We are talking about foetuses.

Pro lifer says they help women with accomodation accomodation and financial support

Another pro lifer then says "Its nothing to do with the abortion debate"

Proving that the pro life cartoon posted by a PP is pretty damn accurate.

Smoke and mirrors.

IAmNotAWitch · 25/01/2017 02:34

Making abortion illegal doesn't change the number of abortions.

bluegreenyellow · 25/01/2017 02:37

your arguing because the baby is a fetus its not the same as a human thats already here that is the abortion debate you made my point by saying that you think there is a moral difference i don't

HelenaDove · 25/01/2017 02:42

bluegreen your behaviour on this thread is not dissimilar to a man trying to gaslight his wife.

Manumission · 25/01/2017 02:46

you made my point by saying that you think there is a moral difference i don't

Pure gobbledygook.

bluegreenyellow · 25/01/2017 02:57

you stated without any argument that a fetus and baby are clearly different thats simply not true and you should at least explain why you think that.
i may not of worded my previous statement correctly i should of stated the point being the problems children face in the world is irrelevant to the moral questions about rights of the mother

HelenaDove · 25/01/2017 03:00

Blimey Have you given all the biology teachers a heads up Blue and told them they have got it all wrong Hmm

I want an eye roll smiley.

Manumission · 25/01/2017 03:05

Here you go Helena

🙄