...to think if abortion was illegal I may be dead

[Woman1980]

I've name changed as I still feel a lot of shame on this issue. Just listened to the discussion of abortion on Woman's Hour.

I was with my exH from the age of 14, got pregnant at 15 and (very much against my will) was coerced into an abortion by my parents. I had a Very much wanted DC at 17. When DC was 14 months I found I was pregnant again; exH & I had planned a sibling for DC. Some weeks later exH changed his mind; I went to the scan on my own, baby was 13.5 weeks and I went home to tell exH that I was going ahead with pg it was too late for a surgical abortion. Eventually he convinced me that he would leave me and I would ruin dc's life and I rang family planning clinic at 16 weeks distraught to arrange termination. I went alone and was left alone until the baby was out. I desperately wanted to see the baby and know the sex, but kept silent to keep up the pretence. I completely blocked it for a few years, but as dc got older I walked my missing child to school with dc everyday too ifykwim.
Both times it was clear (I'm pretty sure) that it was not my choice. However, I still totally support the right to abortion and think that perhaps I may have been forced into an unsafe abortion if the law was different. I just feel that the "pro life" movement is nothing of the sort and I cannot begin to understand it.
Does anyone else have similar experiences?

The foetus is part of the woman's body and at the stage when the vast majority of abortions take place it is incapable of surviving outside the woman's body.

If you don't own the individual uterus in question, you have absolutely zero say in what happens to its contents.

I used to think I was pro life. Not in a particularly active way, I didn't judge friends who'd had abortions, but the whole thing made feel very sad and just seemed really wrong.

That was until I was in a shit relationship and got pg, after the bloke dumped me because I got pg. I knew I couldn't cope with another baby so I had an abortion. It was pretty harrowing at the time, but now I feel nothing but gladness that I did the right thing for me and my existing children at the time.

It's easy to think it's something you could never do until you find yourself in an impossible situation, and then you're bloody pleased that option exists.

you are simply wrong it dose not matter where the embryo feotus or zygote is it matters what it is and saying babies cant survive outside the mother makes no logical sense because we wouldnt say people who need life saving medicine arnt people or a new born baby isnt a person just because its reliant on other people to feed them

And breathe bluegreenyellow. You might remember punctuation then. What about the LIFE of the mother? The LIFE the child would be growing up into? What if that life was violence, misery, fear, drugs? What then? It's not pro LIFE, it's pro-no choice birth. What then if the consequences?

OP

I'm glad you had access to safe options.

Pro-life is not pro-life it is anti-woman.

bluegreenyellow life begins at birth, that bit is law.

To get religious about it, God created life when he blew breath into the clay. No breath, no life. Foetuses don't breath (both aided or unaided) until birth, therefore life begins at birth.

People who need life saving medicine are people, they have been born and are alive. As are newborn babies.

Want to take another stab at forming a coherent argument?

'Pro life' organisations in the uk provide massive amounts of support to women with crisis pregnancies, who would only have one choice without that support. They provide accommodation, financial support, provide baby items (cots, pushchairs, clothes etc). They help these women become independent and self sufficient. They also provide free counselling, both to pregnant women and those who are struggling post abortion.

OP I'm sorry you were forced into abortions. I'm sorry you had no choice.

promto, youve changed your argument you said because the fetus cant survive outside the mothers body that makes them not a person. or at least not a person with any rights. now you are saying there not because life begins at birth when they breath. however scientifically speaking they are they have all four characteristics of life growth,, reproduction, metabolism and response to stimuli and violet you could say that a toddler would have all those problems in its life it would be the most humane thing to do would be to kill it although im sure you wouldn't. those problems dont justify ending life.

To all ' pro lifers'
Aka anti women.

If you really want to get technical then how about the life that is a sperm?
Why don't we punish men and tell them to stop using condoms as this is preventing life.
This is the belief with practising Catholics. Therefore contraception, except the withdrawal method, is wrong.
So men should not be having sex with women , at all, unless their is prior consent to try for a child.

What punishment should we impose on the men who break this rule of respecting life?
Oh wait... Nothing because they are men and the punishments don't apply to them.
It's only women who should be punished.

How about ensuring that all existing v parents are responsible for the kids they already have.
Roughly 30% of absent parents( generally fatners) don't pay a single penny in maintenance for their children.
You know the children which you insist are born.

How about doing something to help solve this situation, instead of insisting that more children are brought into the world. More unwanted children at that.

not sure i understand your point women are more againts abortion than men do all of them hate women? www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2014/apr/30/why-are-women-more-opposed-to-abortion

Boo I'm reminded of Monty Python reading the first part of your post. Maybe someone will link to the relevant part of The Meaning of Life...

(Walks away humming 'Every sperm is sacred'...)

Yes I just think from now on I'll replace pro life with anti choice.
Either that or mysoginistic bastards.

There isn't a chance in hell that abortion would be considered anything other than a ' right' if men gave birth.

And nobody will ever convince me otherwise.

I think all the people saying 'id never have an abortion' shouldn't say that.
I have a close friend who planned to have 4 kids. Totally 'pro-life'
3 c-sections later, 1 which nearly killed her & she decided no more kids.

So she had tubes tied- she was sterilised. Not sure of percentages bit I think 99% ?
She was the 1 & got pregnant.
Docs told her another pregnancy would kill her. So- what should she do? Leave 3 kids with no mum?

She had a termination. If you'd asked her before, she would've said she'd never do it.

It's not always simple.

The fact is blue that nobody, absolutely nobody, has the right to make the decision for another woman. You cannot and should not decide whether or not I get to have an abortion. It's none of your business. Ever. You are unaware of individual circumstances, mine, your neighbour, the woman two counties away that was just raped, yet again by her husband. Not your decision. Ever.

I didnt want to read and run. I'm so sorry you had to go through that OP. That was awful for you to go through [Flowers]

I hate the terms "pro life" and "pro choice." Pro lifers are anti abortion that's all. They don't care about the life of the baby or the life and mental state of the mother. They don't understand or respect the mothers choice in all this.

But while I believe the mother should have a choice, so should the father. If he wants to raise the child as a single father he should get that chance. Too many women opt for the abortion when there is anot her person who wants to raise that baby.

I also believe a woman shouldn't have to carry her rapists baby or carry a hold that will end up killing her.

I'm definitely pro choice. It's each to there own but I do wish the men who want to be fathers would have a few extra rights. Of course it's a woman's body so I can understand why the laws are there for women to have the final say.

OP.

If he wants to raise the child as a single father he should get that chance
So you think a woman who doesn't want a child should be forced to carry one for nine months and forced to give birth to it?
Why?

dawn i just have a deeply held philosophical belief a fetus is a human and has as many rights as you and i and the mother of a fetus. An individual’s right to choose what they want to do with their body ends where the rights of another human being begin.

I am pro choice to the hilt. I've never had to make use of abortion services because the contraception I've used has worked. But contraception doesn't always work, women are raped or live in an abusive home, someone may be pregnant with a much wanted baby that will kill her if she continues with the pregnancy or who isn't going to survive birth. And sometimes accidents happen or people are careless, but they shouldn't be forced to bring a child into the world that they're not ready for.

My friend had an abortion a few years ago, she's in a long term relationship with the person she got pregnant with and they are still together (and in a civil partnership now because they live in an awesome country where that's allowed.) But at the time they weren't financially secure and were renting a flat. She believes that children have a right to have a stable, secure and loving home with parents that are able to provide for them, and she didn't feel that she and her partner could provide that at that time. I wasn't able to argue with that, because I agree with her.

OP, I'm so sorry you were forced into it. I don't think anyone should ever be forced into it.

And yes, the anti-abortion lot really piss me off. That woman suffering from an ectopic pregnancy? Well we don't care if she dies as long as she doesn't have an abortion. This was years ago, but I remember something from the USA about two paramedics refusing to take a woman to hospital for an abortion because she was in that situation.

blue, I have a deeply held philosophical belief that what another woman does with her body is none of your business and your philosophical belief removes the rights of women, which makes my philosophical belief better.
HTH.

Any deeply held philosophical beliefs are usually best kept to yourself, FYI, blue. Don't try to inflict them on other people, that's not cool!

even if that includes taking innocent life? its certainly an belief but not sure its better than mine would you say a couple who use abortion as the only form of abortion is fine even the tenth or 11th time? she has an abortion

You don't get to strip any woman of her basic human right to bodily autonomy just because you have "deeply held philosophical beliefs".

Crazy you are not fucking pro choice.

You believe women should be forced to carry the baby for months then risk their life giving birth on a mans fucking say so!

Are you having a laugh. Ffs.