This is bullshit :- brexit

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www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-supreme-court-ruling-judges-defy-theresa-may-and-hand-power-to-parliament-a7542406.html

I can see the MP voting to stay in.

I too have voted in every election since I was eligible to vote but that was age 19 in my case. So that's why I am sick to the back teeth of hearing " we were never asked," when the truth is democracy was so important to them, that they just couldn't be arsed.

So, people in the UK could vote for European Parliament and voted for the UK Government who nominated the Commissioners for the European Commission (just as the PM chooses their ministers).
The EC President is chosen by the majority group in the EU Parliament (just like most PMs in each country - and... May in the UK, who was not voted in directly, or Brown initially, or Major).

Will Brexiters also want to vote for individual ministers?

How is it not democratic?

Like the system or not, you should always vote to choose your representatives. Even Farage had no problems being at the European Parliament.

Like the system or not, you should always vote to choose your representatives. Even Farage had no problems being at the European Parliament.

Apart from the cunt is happy to take his money, but never turn up.

I sometimes wonder if there's anything to be said for Australia's system of compulsory voting

The trouble is of course - and I realise I'm being contradictory here - can it really be right in a free society to force people to vote, even though it seems the responsible thing to do?

The stuff I saw from Leavers on Facebook before the referendum! All that conspiracist shite about 'take a pen, because MI5 will just rub out pencil marks'. Beyond belief.

Labour can't bring themselves to pull their socks up and back who their grass roots members have chosen.

Just like Corbyn did for all those years he was a backbencher you mean?

I don't agree voting should be compulsory, but I think people who don't vote lose the right to complain about those who got voted in or their decisions.
Because if you choose not to vote, then surely it's because you don't care who's there.

Meanwhile the EU has issued a directive on how brown a roast potato is allowed to be.

How are you supposed to deal with this level of gormlessness?

I'm sure that my mum would be thrilled that I'm part of the 'metropolitan elite' now, what with me being a nurse from a council estate.

the cunt is happy to take his money, but never turn up

Like Gordon Brown's later attendance and voting record at Westminster you mean?

And yes, I do realise that he's since stood down ...

If it went to the public for another referendum yes I think Remain would win but not by a huge majority it would come down to those voting who didn't bother to last year

If it was down to politicians well the Tories are in a very safe position at the moment there is no opposition so why rock the boat if they went against the referendum result it's a gamble (of course it's a gamble to leave but one the people apparently choose) it is down to the Tory party we are in this mess and they would still win and gain a larger majority should there be GE soon

Agree the Tories haven't even started on Corbyn the right wing press have not either the run up to a GE a few pictures of Corbyn with his friends and labour will lose many many seats

Shame he wasn't kicked out of the party when he still insisted on inviting Gerry Adams to parliament just a few weeks after the Brighton Bombing he should have been

I blame all the acrylamide in the burnt toasts. The UK's FSA must be right to issue the warning, then.

Shame (Corbyn) wasn't kicked out of the party when he still insisted on inviting Gerry Adams to parliament just a few weeks after the Brighton Bombing

Dear god, did you have to?? I'd forgotten about that one ...

I absolutely love burnt toast

And very well done roast potatoes

Look forward to the time I can eat them again

I can forgive Gordon Brown a bit, considering he helped to save us from complete financial meltdown. Yes, he should have turned up a bit more post 2010.

Or when he does turn up, goad other MEPs about never having done a proper job in their lives when at least one had been a brain surgeon. Whereas Farage, what proper job had he done?

Whereas Farage, what proper job had he done?

Stockbroker? One of those essential jobs for society.

Now, Trump's lap dog.

The vote was advisory.

That means it has to be ratified by Parliament.

Those of us who made the effort to read the rules on the lid of the box before we started playing "The game of Brexit" already knew that, in principle, the vote result was not mandatory.

Democracy is a complex balance of competing needs and desires. It is an attempt to keep society stable and safe and fair. British democracy does not exist to serve "The Will of the People", it exists to give a mandate to government to rule on behalf of the people.

Governments are bound by laws and have to follow those laws, otherwise they start behaving in ways that exceed their mandate. That is, they break the democratic covenant and cease to be democratic. If May had triggered Article 50 without an Act of Parliament, she would have acted directly against the principles of our sovereign democratic government.

Personally, I don't think she ever thought she'd win the court case, and her legal advisors will have said as much. But she challange the case anyway because it was politically expedient for her to do so.

Either way, the vote was advisory. Our elected Parliament could have made the Referendum legally binding, but they chose not to do so. Our democratically elected government, with the agreement of Parliament, deliberately chose to create a Referendum that would require an Act of Parliament to leave the EU.

To now ignore the rules of our democratic system simply because the winning Brexit side doesn't like those rules would negate that initial democratic process, and would effectively be handing our country over to mob rule. The Referendum was not a vote on the right of government to break the law.

If you have a problem with the legal ruling, your argument is not with the Remainers or with the Courts, but with Cameron. He designed the Referendum - he took his democratic mandate and turned it into something divisive and poorly thought-through. But he has now left politics, so there's nothing anyone can do to lay blame where it deserves to be placed.

Ignorantia jurisdiction non excusat. Ignorance of the laws of British democracy is no excuse for breaking those laws.

I have to be careful about Farage. I talked about him and a certain plane crash on here once, and lost my privileges for a few days as a result.

May and Hunt were in Cameron's Government so I think they can share collective blame. Gove now out of Governement can take some blame too, but ultimately, the blame for the botched Referendum is with Cameron. A botched Brexit will be due to May and her Government, although she will try to pass the buck.

One of the problems with the UK having Referenda is that it is a new way of working for us, whereas Parliamentary democracy has been developing over 800 years or so. Hence Parliament was pretty clueless about what rules to draw up to govern the Referendum. Other countries which Govern by Referenda have much better defined rules about them. I can imagine that if the UK hold any more, they will make the rules much tighter.

Great post YourOtherLeft

Peregrina Parliament managed to make the referendum on changing the voting system non advisory, which makes me wonder why this didn't happen with leaving the EU. I've always voted too, a vote is precious, people lost their lives for the right to a political mandate.

Hence Parliament was pretty clueless about what rules to draw up to govern the Referendum.

Or maybe they could have given it more than 5 minutes thought?

I doubt there will be ANY more referenda in UK. LOL.

Jeezus this issue is polarising the nation to say the least of it, and I'm not even there!

Theresa May appears to me to be SHOUTING that Brexit is Brexit. To drown out her abhorrence at being asked to steer this. But Whatever is necessary to keep her and the Tories in power.

Even though they have to use anti emetics when pretending they mean what they say. Yuk. the hypocrisy is just so obvious.

It's probably already been said but...
The voting boundaries for the referendum were different than for constituencies, so any mp can ignore a large remain (or exit) vote in their area if they want/need to, because there's no 'constituency' voting. That said, Islington voted overwhelmingly to remain but both its MPs are going to vote to trigger article 50. Which totally pisses me off.

Extra do you think May doesn't want to brexit? My suspicion is that she was always fervent brexit but didn't think it politically expedient to be openly so and now she's rapidly going insane with glee..