This is bullshit :- brexit

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www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-supreme-court-ruling-judges-defy-theresa-may-and-hand-power-to-parliament-a7542406.html

I can see the MP voting to stay in.

Captain I agree with you there - it is about having a voice and it was something that was denied to leave voters for years until democracy allowed that voice to be heard.

The voice said Leave. I agree marches for remain can go on, should go on, but the over riding vote was LEAVE. As long as that result is respected - I dont care what people do, its a free country.

if you read my post again you'll see I suggested that their concerns can be addressed in parliament by all those MPs who feel the same way

Is it really that simple? My MP is pro-Brexit. I live in a deprived constituency that ranks very highly on any kind of misery and deprivation indices you care to mention. We have particular and largely unique issues due to our location, the nature of local industry etc. Few MPs, if any, would have any real understanding of how we may be affected - both positively or negatively - post Brexit. I am not convinced there are any MPs out there qualified to represent the remain vote in my constituency and our MP does not speak for us. I am sure others have similar concerns.

if you read my post again you'll see I suggested that their concerns can be addressed in parliament by all those MPs who feel the same way

Is it really that simple? My MP is pro-Brexit. I live in a deprived constituency that ranks very highly on any kind of misery and deprivation indices you care to mention. We have particular and largely unique issues due to our location, the nature of local industry etc. Few MPs, if any, would have any real understanding of how we may be affected - both positively or negatively - post Brexit. I am not convinced there are any MPs out there qualified to represent the remain vote in my constituency and our MP does not speak for us. I am sure others have similar concerns.

and it was something that was denied to leave voters for years until democracy allowed that voice to be heard.

Really? Were they disbarred from voting in General Elections? Were they prevented from writing to their MPs or attending their surgeries? If they felt strongly about the issue of the EU they had the opportunity to raise the matter with them then. Were they banned from joining a political party?

My question of 18:42 hasn't been answered. For those people who say they were denied a voice, did they vote in any EU election? If they chose not to, then they needn't grumble that their voice wasn't heard when they chose not to or couldn't be bothered to speak.

Elendon

I'm probably more left than left of center but wouldn't go so far as to call myself a full on socialist.

As for who I'd feel safe voting for, I can't really answer that. As I said upthread, politics is not my strong point. It's something I dip in and out of as and when I feel it's necessary - so normally around election times. I'm ashamed to say that I don't even know who the leaders of UKIP and the Lib Dems is atm, though I do know Farage and Clegg have gone.

I am in a very low income area with a strong economic reliance on manufactoring - Nissan especially. Brexit has terrified me to the extent that I have done the equivelent of sticking my fingers in my ears and singing lalala wrt politics. I don't want to know. The few bits I do know are from work, we have customers who like to watch BBC News. Fortunately my job isn't in manufactoring, less fortunately it is in leisure. Without money in the pockets of local people, I have no job. Without Nissan and other industry the local people have no money. That thought keeps me awake at night.

However, if I had to pick a party leader to back right now, I'd have to say I'm quite fond of Corbym. I strongly agree with a lot of his policies i.e the re-nationalisation of public transport, rent controls and better rights for tennents, the investment in council housing.

Sadly, Labour can't bring themselves to pull their socks up and back who their grass roots members have chosen. This is a shame as I believe the disenfranchised, the ones who voted us into this mess, who no longer vote in the GE because they feel left behind, could possibly be reached by Corbyn. The ones I speak to at least, would back him. But while the party are busy in-fighting he's not a safe vote.

As a Leaver I never voted in any EU elections on the grounds that they didn't speak for me. If I was an ardent feminist and lived in America would I have voted for Trump? Do turkeys vote for Christmas? Why would I vote in the eu elections for ardent pro Europeans?

And what has the Gina Miller action actually achieved? It's not slowed anything up, not changed the course of Brexit, and will have no major effect on the negotiations. Just wasted a lot of taxpayers money for a matter of principle. Now I am all for having principles, but I am also a pragmatist and the first question I ask myself before any course of action is....what will it change?

For all Gina Millers posturing she will never have housing issues or school issues because of the huge influx of eu migrants. She will never have her job threatened or pay undercut by cheap foreign labour. She needn't worry about dwindling fish stocks because of Spanish super trawlers. It doesnt bother her that we as taxpayers pay into a huge money pit and get less back because her earnings mean she wouldn't even notice. I'm sorry to say she is an example of the pro London, pro EU elite who have no conception of what it's like to feel disenfranchised in your own town.

And I think people have been voicing their disquiet about the EU for many years and been ignored.

Fwiw. I am not against qualified free movement of labour. Qualified in that the pay must be what would be considered a living and fair wage for the area. Fair to the migrant workers and to the local community.

Sadly, Labour can't bring themselves to pull their socks up and back who their grass roots members have chosen. This is a shame as I believe the disenfranchised, the ones who voted us into this mess, who no longer vote in the GE because they feel left behind, could possibly be reached by Corbyn. The ones I speak to at least, would back him. But while the party are busy in-fighting he's not a safe vote.

Corbyn isn't trusted on vital issues; defence and the economy are two vital ones. The people that I've spoken to on the doorstep while canvassing for Labour despise him. He's a liability.

Has it occurred to you that had you voted for MEPs you might have got someone in who did speak for you? They are not elected on a First past the post system, so it's not like those Tory constituencies where a pig with a blue rosette could win.

What has Gina Miller and her Leaver co applicant, Deir dos Santos achieved? Forced them to get a clarification of the Law, which is a good thing. Why didn't our elected Parliament do this, in the first place? Why do we waste our taxes paying them when they won't do their jobs properly? May chose to appeal, so May is the one squandering the taxpayers money. That's OK because she too is married to a wealthy man, so she won't have housing issues either.

When the fish have all gone, will you think that's OK because they were fished to extinction by British ships? Or have you stopped to think that it's the Westminster Government which has dished out the fishing licences to Foreign firms?

For all Gina Millers posturing she will never have housing issues or school issues because of the huge influx of eu migrants. She will never have her job threatened or pay undercut by cheap foreign labour. She needn't worry about dwindling fish stocks because of Spanish super trawlers. It doesnt bother her that we as taxpayers pay into a huge money pit and get less back because her earnings mean she wouldn't even notice. I'm sorry to say she is an example of the pro London, pro EU elite who have no conception of what it's like to feel disenfranchised in your own town.

Our crumbling infrastructure is not the fault of EU migrants; they're often young and willing to work. Poor infrastructure is a choice of government; of 'austerity'. The EU hasn't stopped us from building houses or funding schools adequately.

I'm sorry to say she is an example of the pro London, pro EU elite who have no conception of what it's like to feel disenfranchised in your own town.

This is such bollocks. Who are more elitist than the leaders of the Leave campaign? Gove, Farage, Johnson. If people were daft enough to believe their 'men of the people' rhetoric, then more fool them.

Add Arron Banks too.

Frankly. I'm most disgusted by the majority of MPs, who, let's not forget, were overwhelmingly pro-Remain (by considerably more than 52/48), presumably in the belief that it was by far the best thing for our country and for their constituents.

Now, they've sold themselves out in a desperate bid to retain their little bit of power rather than stand up for what they actually believe in.

Feckless cowards, the lot of them...

Brexit is a huge, foolish gamble with the economic health of the country. May and her team are literally making it up as they go along. Leavers don't know what they voted for, beyond abstract ideas about 'taking our country back'. When it continues to go tits up for years to come, we'll be be here to remind you just how stupid and foolhardy you were.

What all those who voted leave and feel immigration has had a negative impact on their job prospects/pay will vote for there is no need to have limits on immigration stance of Corbyn

Yes of course

Meanwhile back in the real world UKIP couldn't be more pleased with momentum controlling the Labour Party

Leavers were fooled by a series of lies printed on the sides of buses; lies disowned by the Machiavellian twats that were banging on about them days before. We've been royally fucked by essentially a dispute within the Tory party.

Looking at all this from outside the UK at the moment. What an utter mess this is, and has sadly divided you all into one camp or another. That is not very good at all is it?

Anyway, on a lighter note, let me pose a hypothetical question....

What would the result be if Parliament had a secret ballot on this, no whips allowed?

What do you reckon?

Yeah, good old Corbyn. Corbyn who interfered in the NI peace process, to the despair of the grown ups involved at the time. Corbyn who wanted to commemorate the deaths of IRA terrorists. Corbyn who wants some kind of Falklands power sharing solution. Corbyn who wouldn't lift a finger to assist NATO allies.
The patriotic elements of the British working class will be queuing up to vote for that clown.

What would the result be if Parliament had a secret ballot on this, no whips allowed?
This is a difficult question - some of them would vote with their consciences, some have mislaid their consciences and might not find them in time, and some had no conscience anyway. I suspect it would be a 50/50 split.

The only thing now is to work through it - it's like a cancer which needs to be treated - it may work, it may not.

As I said, I'm not really up to date on politics atm, nor did I look much into Corbyn when I was last interested in politics, I was more concerned with the rights or wrongs of Brexit.

A bit of in depth research might well change my opinion of the bloke but the admittedly few people I speak to about politics do seem to quite like him. They're all salt of the earth working class, northern folk. I just assumed, perhaps wrongly, that others in a similar position would feel the same.

And don't worry, I will be taking my fingers out of my ears and listening in the run up to the GE. I won't be blindly voting for Corbyn or anyone else.

Interesting question extra

I'm really not sure see I think the Tories will always think ahead of winning the election so vast majority would vote to support Brexit and they have no real opposition to bother worrying about at the moment

Labour would be more split maybe 35/65 to Remain

And we know the majority of the rest would vote to Remain

So I think Leave vote would have the majority of votes but not hugely

We might have some hope post Brexit, when people realise what a dud they've been sold. When people notice that their living standards have worsened, not improved. When casualisation of the workforce increases. When major employers shrug their shoulders at May's attempts at bribery, and fuck off elsewhere in the EU. When Compo Corbyn and his inner circle have been deposed, the membership of the Labour Party take their collective heads out of their arses, and we have some opposition worthy of the name. That's when we might have hope.
It'll be too late then, of course. Who will the British public blame then? Will it still be all the 'foreigners wot did it'? Or will blame finally be levelled at those who have used austerity as a political tool?

The Tories haven't even started on Corbyn yet. They're quite happy to see him in charge of his party. We'll truly see how low the Labour vote can fall once they wheel out their attack dogs on him; 25%? Even lower?

@Enthusiasm

As I see it from afar, it appears that although the mothership is forging ahead with Brexit as a result of the referendum, I think more people would opt to stay now than leave.

Just a feeling I'm getting, with absolute due respect to your referendum result last June.

I think the Emperor has no clothes TBH.

For those people who say they were denied a voice, did they vote in any EU election?

I think this is a very valid question - though given the appalling turnout in EU elections I'm not surprised that hardly anyone's answered it. Nobody pretends our systems are perfect, but democracy seem a darned sight better than some of the alternatives ... is it really too much to expect that people exercise their right to vote?

And FWIW, yes - except for once when I was ill, I've voted in every single election since I was 18 (and that's longer ago than I sometimes care to remember )

I've no patience for people who don't vote. I even vote in those ridiculous police commissioner elections.