Furious: Girl Guides now admitting boys

[shinynewusername]

Sorry for DM link but this is important. Brownies and Guides are going to admit boys if they identify as girls. Girls will have to share 'single sex' facilities including tents & changing rooms with them. Parents won't be told. Oh, and men who identify as women can become Brownie & Guide leaders, where they will get to supervise girls in those tents, changing rooms etc.

How is this possible? There is an epidemic of sexual abuse. We are still in the fall-out of Rotherham, Saville etc yet we are enabling men to have access to every safe space for girls. AIBU?

Not all men are rapists, but all rapists are men.

This isn't just about protecting girls from men, it's about girls right to meet in single sex groups. It's about helping girls to think beyond narrow sexual stereotypes, not telling them that they are ideas in boys heads.

The trans movement is sexist and deeply homophobic.

My apologies,

I certainly wasn't looking to derail the thread, it just tires me when anything comes up about trans girls/women being around other girls, these statistics get bandied about.

The conviction rate for rapists is very low, indicating that many more go unpunished.

Yes, definitely not because of innocence! The only possible reason is misogyny.

Mirador

You won't read reports as they're biased but state that "male support groups are awash with..."

Is it those groups claiming to be awash. Is there any vested interest in claiming so?

There is no such thing as an unbiased source.

Euripidesralph
You reduce the issue of sexual crime to a ridiculous platform designed to demonise any male within a 50 mile radius of women

Nicely put.

Not all men are rapists, but all rapists are men

So women who rape rape are what?

DameDeDoubtance
Not all men are rapists, but all rapists are men.*

Sadly true.

When I first got married, husbands couldn't be rapists.* I assume you disagree with that definition though?

*my DH is wonderful. I didn't mean I was raped!

I started one of the other guide threads.

I care that by moving from a sex based organisation to a 'gender' (which is based on feelings in other peoples heads) based organisation, guides are no longer an all girl organisation.

Plus their new attitudes on what they think a girl is, directly opposes what I want my girls to learn about being a girl.

I want my girls to know how they dress and who they love and what they choose to do, is up to them. That they have a sex but that gender is a load of bollocks and should be challenged at every turn. As made up gender concepts are what limits our girls futures.

I don't want confused girls who are struggling with their puberty or their sexual orientation aka trans boys, chucked out of guides. This tells my girls that they have to behave in a certain way or they are not girls ! These girls should remain in guides, whatever their end journey.

I don't want confused boys who are struggling with puberty or sexual orientation feelings aka trans girls to be welcomed into guides. They will never be girls. They destroy the girl only element of guiding, however nice they are. These boys will teach my girls that biology does not matter, only the feelings in your head do.

Which is ridiculous, rapists do not ask your gender before attacking you, they target biological female bodies.

Employees don't ask your gender before assuming you will bear children and pay you lower than a man for the same job.

Gender is a belief a person holds in their head.
Sex is what the world (usually) sees in you. The world responds to your sex and treats women worse because of their biology not because of gender.

Guides are effectively telling my girls that this is their fault for not 'indentifing out of their oppression'

Guides use to be a place where biological girls could learn to work together and achieve goals without a boy taking over activities, centering everything around him and generally manplaining to the girls.

It is well documented that this happens in all mixed sex groups and girls learn better in female only spaces precisely because there are no boys present.

Trans girls are boys. Both biologically and legally as they cannot get a gender certificate until they are 18yo. They are also raised with male privilege and that is shown by the arrogance of any boy who pushes into a girl only space, knowing his presence eliminates that girl only space.

He is also showing his lack of empathy for others and his lack of understanding of the importance of girl only space. Something he will never understand being male.

Overall I am very disappointed with guides. Both for pushing out trans boys and allowing in trans girls and for teaching my girls, that they are never to be allowed to meet up with other girls in a girl only space, as boys/men will not allow us that privilege anymore.

Goodbye to the last girl only space in the UK.

Other than the assertion that a man cannot actually be a woman (Science cannot be transphobic or bigoted) Can anyone point me towards any transphobia? Can anyone genuinely refute what people are saying, using any data whatsoever? Not just say and run.

I understand for many, it just feels wrong to critically analyse an ideology like this. We've been through the uphill struggle to allow gays, lesbians and bisexuals the right to be who they are. This feels the same.

But the LGB community did not make demands that infringed upon the rights of the heterosexual community. They wanted their own rights, their own spaces, their own identity. They didn't campaign to take the identity of anyone else.

Transgenderism is NOT a sexual orientation. Trans-activists are hijacking the good will and outlook of those who support the LGB community. And there are a LOT of gay people who are pissed off about it.

And regarding the word transphobia. I would freely admit trans-men into any space I was occupying. So not transphobic. Merely wanting the right to a female only space to not be made illegal.

Fabulous .....so basically if one of my ds identify as female and want to join the guides they are automatically predatory paedophiles?

No. My daughter does lots of things in mixed groups with male supervision. I don't generally worry about her safety because of male people.

What would your sons mean by identifying as a female? That they like girly things? What are girly things? That they want to dress as a female? What's that then? That they feel like a woman? How do they know what feeling like a woman is like? I don't and I am a woman.

If we take biology out of it, it comes down to stereotypes of what a woman is.

Girl guiding is supposed to be fighting gender stereotypes so by allowing trans girls/women it is endorsing those stereotypes. If they become single-gender they lose their whole point of being.

These boys will teach my girls that biology does not matter, only the feelings in your head do.

So, are you saying our biology does change us and have an impact and that we are different to men? Different strengths, weaknesses, abilities, ways of learning?

So, are you saying our biology does change us and have an impact and that we are different to men? Different strengths, weaknesses, abilities, ways of learning?

Yes, in the way we are treated as opposed to fundamentally though.

@stealtheatingtunnocks - your DD rocks!
MistressMolecules - thank you, i dont normally reply to these threads as i dont feel i want to be shouted down by the anti trans

Men and young men go to the police to report abuse of various kinds by a female and even today are pretty much laughed at.

What are you basing this on? This leaping generalisation, as opposed to one or two unverified reports I suspect you can find on the internet.

Because when you hear of a female teacher being convicted for sex with a pupil, we still in this day and age, hear "lucky boy" "i'm so jealous... she's so hot", "teachers weren't like that in my day" etc

where we should be hearing the same disgust that we hear the other way round - things are getting better, but its still too slow
---

if one of my ds identify as female and want to join the guides they are automatically predatory paedophiles?

Where has anyone said that?
By saying that your DD will not be safe as the reason that trans people want to join the GG? surely a confused child who doesnt want to be in the body they are in deserves our love and support not our condemnation in case they are a predator trying to take advantage.

SWOT Yes, biology matters. Boys/men are different from girls/women in many ways, which can not be altered by cross sex hormones or surgery.

I don't want my children to be taught (wrongly) that biology doesn't matter and a girl can have a penis!

I would happily campaign for transrights, just not at the expense of women's rights.

SWOTAnalysis

You're right, I've let emotion creep in when it should have stayed out. My apologies.

Yes women are different to men! Based on their biology. Generally weaker, less violent and able to be impregnated.

Otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.

NB. Pointing out that men make up the bulk of sexual criminals and that trans-women retain male pattern violence does not, and never has meant 'all men are rapists" or "Are you accusing my son of being a predator?!" or "aaargh man hater".

Most men are great.

The girl's responses that stealtheatingtunnocs are what I would expect from a child, a healthy interest in others.
She should be reassured that no they do not have to get undressed in front of anyone (many camps involve not getting undressed at all if it is cold!!!).
Getting up to mischief while in a sleeping bag and wearing a weekend's worth of clothes is quite tricky.
Not all boys like football (I don't).
Her awareness of boys being gay and that they may have a different perspective is refreshing.
Yes she should be aware that SOME people (predominantly men) can be a threat but being aware and have knowledge that other people will help her if necessary is crucial.
Children (GG/Scouts) would not normally go to a residential (camping) without having been at usual troop nights for some time. Parents are encouraged to be involved and if you are particularly worried about your DS/ DS you can observe their interaction with the other children before they go away. If this is still worrying, a parent could be DBS checked and go to camp too.

The problem is that most trans people just want to live their lives and not be shoved into the limelight and many are gender critical and know their own biology.

Sadly there a small majority of trans activists who want to stand in women spaces. Where ever we moved to, whatever we conceded, this small minority of trans activists will continue to work to eliminate all women's only spaces and rights, as they want it. They don't want their own spaces, they want to force women to share them and will threaten us, if we object.

If you're female, imagine you walk into Debenhams changing rooms and they've now changed it to one small room for both men and women. There are no cubicles and no curtains.

I wouldnt want to get changed in front of women either

Not all men are rapists, but all rapists are men.

Women can be rapists.

Well, I agree with that although we're in the minority here.

I guess we disagree that because of these differences we are inherently in need of legal and social protection.

I think i'll quote Celeana

By saying that your DD will not be safe as the reason that trans people want to join the GG? surely a confused child who doesnt want to be in the body they are in deserves our love and support not our condemnation in case they are a predator trying to take advantage.

There is an obvious reply that it shouldn't be at the expense of your daughter. Would you say the same when someone tells you a disabled pupil is getting extra cash to attend school or a child with SEN has a PSA following them costing the LEA £40k?

If not, why not? Because one is 'in their heads' but the other can be tested and proven by science? Rather bigoted to have such disdain for mental issues.

Datsun

But the LGB community did not make demands that infringed upon the rights of the heterosexual community. They wanted their own rights, their own spaces, their own identity. They didn't campaign to take the identity of anyone else.

Did they want their own spaces and identities or to be accepted into society?

Also, beyond individual identity (not one you share with ~50% of the world) can someone take an identity. It's like love. Sharing it doesn't lessen it.

IFitQuacks
We are putting young girls in that situation and telling them to get over themselves.

No we aren't. Girls rarely like to been seen naked at that age cock or no cock. That's why single sex changing rooms have cubicles. The better analogy would be a man / transwoman walking around looking at the same clothes.

When was the last time anyone saw your breasts in a public changing room?

For what it's worth, I would turn my back and change quickly. A product of my education...

TheresABluebirdOnMyShoulder
Not all men are rapists, but all rapists are men.

Women can be rapists.

Not in GB. As I said (although didn't receive a reply), the same could have been said until 1991 about a woman's husband. That definition was clearly disgusting. Kind of sickening that people use these legal definitions to point out that only men are rapists!