Furious: Girl Guides now admitting boys

[shinynewusername]

Sorry for DM link but this is important. Brownies and Guides are going to admit boys if they identify as girls. Girls will have to share 'single sex' facilities including tents & changing rooms with them. Parents won't be told. Oh, and men who identify as women can become Brownie & Guide leaders, where they will get to supervise girls in those tents, changing rooms etc.

How is this possible? There is an epidemic of sexual abuse. We are still in the fall-out of Rotherham, Saville etc yet we are enabling men to have access to every safe space for girls. AIBU?

You do know that there are women paedophiles too! I hate the notion that it's always men. I know that there are statistically more men but seriously... it only takes one woman.

There's a thousand and one places where a child abuser might choose before they go to the lengths of gender changing

You do realise that they do not have to change gender? They simply have to say that they identify as a woman.

I hate the notion that it's always men

97% of sexual offences are committed by men.

Shiny who said we shouldn't be concerned about sexual abuse? You're putting words in people's mouths. And of course the accuracy of information printed in the Daily Mail is important if it's a DM article that you're going to base your thread on. This is not how to start a worthwhile conversation.

Men have been able to be members of girl guiding for ages, as unit helpers and dads can help out on parent rotas. All subject to the same safeguarding procedures as women.

And the list of shops ?????? Girls are unaccompanied at guides, go on camp where large groups sleep together in tents - there is no way on each I would be happy with my 14 year old having to sleep with a biological 14 year old boy whatever his 'gender' orientation.

The DM article quotes verbatim from the Guiding Association's own statement.

why on earth not mellow?

This may be good news for the tiny minority of boys with gender dysmorphia.

But it's terrible news for a much bigger proportion of girls from conservation/religious families who will now not be allowed to join the GG. I was speaking to my religious colleague about a similar issue, she said that her dad would not have allowed her to share a changing room with a boy when she was young.

The worry for me is that this will preclude girls from joining Guides.

It is possible to be a single sex Scout group, you just have to make a case for it. There are loads of boys only groups, mostly with Muslim members.

Essentially, this means that girls from a background which values modesty and privacy will be denied being part of a uniformed organisation.

Which is a shame.

Do you think potential paedophiles are going to go to this much trouble?

Well, having worked at the local sex offenders nick, yes I do. They have several trans prisoners and their trans identity is highly linked to their offending.

Paedophiles will go to a lot of effort to be around where kids are - priests, sports coaches, working in children's home. Most of these rightly are being cut off as avenues of opportunity. Trans is the new gig in town for the determined. Plus they can delude themselves that they can't be a rapist as they are a woman.

No problem with people being trans. Huge problem with that then meaning they are exactly the same as a woman/girl and get access to female only spaces.

There is an epidemic of sexual abuse.

Really? An epidemic?

Yes it's been covered on MN threads already, but they filled quickly and it is easy to miss them for non-daily regulars.

DD2 was about to start guides and we've decided not to off the back of this. It's not so much them admitting males who 'identify' as female (though I disagree with that) but more because of the whole thing on the guiding website about not telling parents. I'd almost certainly be able to tell if a new leader who came along was biologically male. But I wouldn't necessarily be able to tell with another tween/young teen, and I also wouldn't necessarily meet the other children she would be about to share a tent with.

My local guiding leader is incandescent with fury over the new guidelines and considering quitting. It isn't just parents who are upset by the new guidelines.

There's a thousand and one places where a child abuser might choose before they go to the lengths of gender changing and all that entails.

There are no 'lengths' involved in changing gender. It's all about the feelz.

This is Danielle Muscato. Who identifies as a woman. And isn't really going to any 'lengths'.

why wont they join the GG - as far as i know, you dont get changed at the evening meetings?? ?

Like I said op, it takes one woman. Statistics are fact. But the fact is (if you say 97%) then there is still 3% of women. They could be anywhere. Sorry but this is something very close to my heart. I sadly know of several women who knew that their husbands were sexually abusing their children and they stuck by them. Even when they went to prison.

Norma - because I've also had two 14 year old boys and am very aware of adolescent behaviour in both sexes - and a neice who was pregnant at 13 by a 15year old boy who was not trans gendered but apparently 'non binary' and was supposedly her best friend.

Has there ever been a confirmed case of a sexual offender convincing an organisation that he/she identifies as the other gender in order to commit an offence? It gets brought up a lot but I've never heard of it actually happening myself (fully prepared to be enlightened if I've just been living under a rock).

Personally, I don't feel particularly horrified about people who identify as the opposite gender being able to access and enjoy spaces/activities usually reserved for that gender. I do think it's a wee bit silly that so much of childhood is still 'gendered' but that's a slightly different thing.

I work with young people (admittedly older than those who are probably in Guides) and would be very surprised if female group leaders were actively supervising young children getting changed or being alone with them in tents, either individually or in small groups. That's a pretty basic part of all safeguarding training.

Fantastic news! I was a brownie and would be now would be even happier for any daughter of mine (no matter what gender they are born as) to be one too. How can the world becoming a more loving and accepting place be anything but a good model for a child?

BTW women can be paedophiles too. (I am assuming the meme of the sly lurking MALE paedophile is the main reason why the DM has taken an outraged stand against it.)

So quote that then. Or basically any credible news source. To be honest you sound a bit like you're frothing at the mouth and have allowed the DM to whip you up into a frenzy over 'boys and men joining the Brownies' when in actual fact it's 'boys and men who identify as female' which is straight away a completely different thing. So it's difficult to take this thread seriously when page 1 is already full of hyperbole.

There is a worthwhile, adult discussion to be had on the subject, but this thread is not achieving that.

Do you not think that any man who 'simply says he identifies as a woman' is not going to raise a few eyebrows?

Jesus, the trans community are under so much scrutiny already that any paedophile would be a bit dim to take that avenue.

Oh ffs this again?? if you don't like don't go. Simple as. And they are not allowing boys they are allowing children who believe they are girls.

It's disgusting and ultimately concerning at the lack of understanding and prejudice there is. These are kids mixing with other kids, all of which consider themselves female. There are far worse things in this world you should worry about than, the incredibly rare chance that a transgender girl being a sexual predator in disguise at a girl guides club. FFS.

But hey - let's not let real life or common sense get in the way of people's feelz - a few lives wrecked is nothing compared to how people who need validation need to feel