Furious: Girl Guides now admitting boys

[shinynewusername]

Sorry for DM link but this is important. Brownies and Guides are going to admit boys if they identify as girls. Girls will have to share 'single sex' facilities including tents & changing rooms with them. Parents won't be told. Oh, and men who identify as women can become Brownie & Guide leaders, where they will get to supervise girls in those tents, changing rooms etc.

How is this possible? There is an epidemic of sexual abuse. We are still in the fall-out of Rotherham, Saville etc yet we are enabling men to have access to every safe space for girls. AIBU?

This is the 3rd thread about this in a week. MN obsession with Trans people is becoming an embarrassment

So if girls aren't comfortable sharing sleeping and shower facilities with male children (boys) they have the choice not to attend guides? So girls have to leave organisations and activities set up for the advancement of girls' self esteem and quality of life in a world where boys and men get the lions share of everything so that boys can have it too? Do you realise how fucking brainwashed you all sound?

Attendance of Brownies and Guides is voluntary. If you don't like their policies, don't send your daughters there.

OK, MarasmeAbsolu, we can agree to disagree.

But, I'm not sure what your opinion is. And, I'd really like to understand why women who are pro the trans-lobby are.

Because I think it's misogynistic at it's roots.

*and why can you DD join scouts, but my DS cant join guides?

Because men are bad, evil rapisst. Not all, of course as some haven't had the opportunity yet...

We should live in fear and have our safe spaces protected because we're an oppressed class, unable to stand up for ourselves without a little positive discrimination.

Of course if my DD wants to join the local football team, rugby team, Cub or what have you, there'll be hell to pay if they don't make suitable allowances for her!*

Well, no that would be because scouts are mixed and guides are not. (Because numbers to scouting were dropping and they would not have been able to continue with allowing girls to join, not because they were being inclusive.)

Men commit 97% of sexual offences. Men are far more sexually predatory than women have you got a source for this? or is that Men commit 97% or REPORTED offences??

"Earlier this year, the Boy Scouts told the Associated Press that it would admit transgender children to its coeducational programs, but not to programs that are for boys only, like the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts."

Not in the UK - we have girls in our scouts

More women sexually abuse than anyone realises, or will for some years to come.
More men sexually abuse than is known.

Those statistic that are always bandied about, 97% of sexual abuse is by men for example is just that statistics. Statistics created by 'known' figures. So if someone hasn't been caught/arrested/charged/convicted (take your pick), then they don't end up on the 'statistics'

More women abuse, and it doesn't get reported or believed for similar reasons as when I was a child because no male would do that, the child is lying and must be promiscuous ,similarly no-one would believe a Mother/female could do such a thing. No-one would ever think a Mother/female could even have such thoughts let alone act upon them. Both girls and boys suffer at the hands of women, but who will believe them.
But it's not reported so can't go on those 'statistics' so of course it doesn't happen. The statistics tell the whole story don't they. Of course not! Don't forget when those not innocent abusers get aquitted or found not guilty through lack of evidence/witnesses (ffs), they come right off the 'statistics' too (Not talking about those who are truly innocent and there's plenty of them)

It took many many decades to get where we are now with 'I believe you' and believing children when they say 'male relative, teacher, friend hurt me' it's taken many decades and a huge law changes to make it so victims don't have to sit right next to their abuser when giving evidence.

Men and young men go to the police to report abuse of various kinds by a female and even today are pretty much laughed at. No way could a male be abused/raped. No way could a woman do that. Well yes they do, and they always have done. Give it another 10 or 15 years, and maybe we'll believe our kids in the way we do nowadays about men. Maybe we'll give those suffering the confidence to come forward and put an end to it.

Statistics are an indicator, not a gospel of facts.

So statistics can go eat a lump of rotten bananas.

or is that Men commit 97% or REPORTED offences??

How could you record UNREPORTED offences??

Could we have a whole separate topic area for people to moan about trans rights so the rest of us don't have to see it constantly in AIBU?

Just had an interesting chat with 13 yr old.

"How would you feel if you were in a tent at Guides with a boy?"

"NOOOO! Awkward, he'd want to talk about football and x box and stuff. Not what we want to talk about. Plus, we'd have to get changed with him there. We get changed in our sleeping bags, would boys even do that?"

"What do you talk about?"

"Well, just stuff. Mostly about school, fun, I dunno"

"How would you feel if it was a trans-girl in your tent?"

"Well, that'd be ok, because she'd talk about the same stuff as us and be the same as us"

"Even though she was just learning to be a girl?"

"Well, yeah. Do we have to teach her how to be a girl? How do we do that? I don't know anything about make up. William does, he's gay. Maybe they should spend some time with gay boys?"

Mirador
More women sexually abuse than anyone realises, or will for some years to come. More men sexually abuse than is known.

As someone who studied logic, I see a problem with this sentence? Do you?

Men and young men go to the police to report abuse of various kinds by a female and even today are pretty much laughed at.

What are you basing this on? This leaping generalisation, as opposed to one or two unverified reports I suspect you can find on the internet.

We should live in fear and have our safe spaces protected because we're an oppressed class, unable to stand up for ourselves without a little positive discrimination.

GG mission is apparently to empower girls. It's very reason of being.

From their mission page:

*We give girls a space just for them

We're girls only. That means girls feel free to be themselves.*

But yes, it does seem that we're unable to stand up for ourselves to protect this.

Yukbuck so you think there should be girl only groups and mixed groups?

Quote:
The transgender child will be given a choice where to sleep.
If the very shy 14year old girl is not comfortable sharing with a transgirl she is likely to be called bigot and transphobe.
Unquote:
You are making an ADULT assumption about this. The organisation would take all the childrens choices into account. They would make sleeping and changing arrangements to suit them all as far as possible.
Children themselves without adult intervention will be curious and are as likely to be happy being 'friends' with a 'trans' person as with any other.
Similarly groups of boys or girls are very capable of being nasty to others not in their 'group'.
This 'discussion' should be partitioned to cover the scout/GGs, the leaders and others (public and parents), the circumstances are quite different.

stealtheatingtunnocks

Your chat with a 13 year old gives me enormous hope that we are really moving forward as a society. The parents may be clutching their pearls, but most kids are switched on enough by now to take people on their own terms. They are the future, and we older folk can only watch in awe :)

Love that too stealtheatingtunnocks.

I don't see the problem, we can't demand that women receive equal treatment and rights one the one hand whilst refusing people born of one gender entry into a particular group on the other hand.

In any case, in this example only boys that IDENTIFY as girls will be admitted - to all intents and purpose, the child IS a girl. The other girls are no more at risk from this girl than they are from any other! Girls do sexually abuse other girls too, you know - it's not always males that commit these attacks.

Celaena

Other than statistics, I'm not sure what evidence anyone can go on?

98% of sexual crime is recorded as having been committed by men. The conviction rate for rapists is very low, indicating that many more go unpunished.

I have no trouble believing there are some very evil women out there. Nor do I have any trouble believing that a man might get laughed at for reporting abuse from a woman.

But unless these two instances are recorded, we cannot form a collective opinion based on anecdote and personal experience.

I don't think many people can argue that women have been historically oppressed. So although I'm delighted to hear from posters on here that the need to fight that might be vanishing (although the surge in sexual harassment of girls at school rather belies this), I seriously don't think that men demanding the outlawing of women only groups can be a positive progression.

barinatxe - can a white boy identify as a black boy? If not, why not?

This is the 3rd thread about this in a week. MN obsession with Trans people is becoming an embarrassment

It's been an embarrassment for a long time. You usually have to go to the likes of the Daily Mail comments section to get the kind of transphobia that's rife on MN.

Disagreeing with self identification is not transphobia. Far from it.

SWOTAnalysis
What are you basing this on? This leaping generalisation, as opposed to one or two unverified reports I suspect you can find on the internet.

Unfortunately not, I don't tend to read reports because way too many are biased. I know currently 3 males and 1 teenaged boy who have had various responses to reporting raging from 'did you have an argument with your Mum then?', to 'well what do you expect us to do about it?'

Also, some male survivor groups are awash with 'I gave up trying because no-one, not even the police would believe me' (my paraphrasing)

I had a male friend at school when I first knew him and we used to talk about our situations and he tells me not much has changed also.

You are right about the lack of logic in my other sentence you quoted.

Fabulous .....so basically if one of my ds identify as female and want to join the guides they are automatically predatory paedophiles?

Seriously , you know what I'm sick of this , I've spent years working with traumatised women as a rexult of sexual trauma , I've dealt with actual peadopiles and their victims and I'm a mother of two boys

How dare you? You reduce the issue of sexual crime to a ridiculous platform designed to demonise any male within a 50 mile radius of women

Not every male is a rapist and not every woman is a victim you are doing an intense disservice to hose who actually deal with this issue

Go away and find something of more value to do with your time and accept there are monstars and there are those hey prey on stop trying to put them into nicely packaged boxes to wage a war that fits your bigotry

Focus on dealing with predatory behaviour not ridiculous protests like this

It's an embattassment

if one of my ds identify as female and want to join the guides they are automatically predatory paedophiles?

Where has anyone said that?