Furious: Girl Guides now admitting boys

[shinynewusername]

Sorry for DM link but this is important. Brownies and Guides are going to admit boys if they identify as girls. Girls will have to share 'single sex' facilities including tents & changing rooms with them. Parents won't be told. Oh, and men who identify as women can become Brownie & Guide leaders, where they will get to supervise girls in those tents, changing rooms etc.

How is this possible? There is an epidemic of sexual abuse. We are still in the fall-out of Rotherham, Saville etc yet we are enabling men to have access to every safe space for girls. AIBU?

stealth - we disagree then. And that's fine.

Sugarplum - there isn't a medical test that proves or disproves someone's gender dysphoria.

I don't have to disclose my daughter's vaginas-hip because she is a girl, in a girl's organisation.

My issue was never about the leaders. My issue is not about paedophilia. My issue is about my daughter's right to a safe single sex space for sleeping and changing. It's about my daughter's right to not want to be in a space with a male. It's about her as a female being able to say no I do not want this.

Shiny the problem you have, and need to get over, they're not boys!

They are boys.

And there is no medical basis for trans at all other than gender dysphoria. The stuff about pink brain is (ironically) total bollocks.

men commit 97% of sexual offences - maybe, but they aren't "men who identify as women"

Men commit 98% of sexual offences. Men identifying as women, are exactly the same. There is no difference in the male pattern violence whether you truly believe you are a woman or not.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

"male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime."

It's not hysterical, it's my right, as the parent of a young woman, to stipulate that she is not sleeping overnight in a room with young men.

You could just tell her not to have sex with them.

Beavers/cubs became mixed because of numbers as in not enough boys wanted to join - not because of some greater 'gender enlightened' light bulb moment of the leadership

Isnt there another 444676383282 threads already on this and havent they all just turned into a FWR trans men are all pedos frenzy?

This has been discussed on other threads about GG.
I don't have the facilities to put up the safeguarding guide rules that ALL scout leaders (and presumably GG leaders) have to carry and follow at all times when on (organisation) activities.
Discipline in this area is strict and anyone suspected of anything 'untoward' is immediately removed (from duty) and investigated.
The rules do not guarantee total safety but it makes incidents very unlikely.
In Scouts IF a group of 4 or more are ALL happy to share a tent (2 or more of either boy or girl) then they may. There is no compulsion and if leaders suspected anything was amiss they would be split up. The age band for Scouts being 10 1/2 to 14 1/2. Older (or younger if on a family camp) would not be permitted to share.
Activities are more likely to centre on 'farting' competitions or telling 'gross' jokes, to which it is probably equal between boys and girls.
As a scout leader you are not permitted to drive a scout home without a third person. So if it is dark and lashing with rain, they still have to walk alone.

Shiny the problem you have, and need to get over, they're not boys! They are girls with a medically proven condition

No they are not. They are boys who feel dysphoria (unhappiness) about being male. They have male bodies and male brains. Not wanting to be a boy doesn't make you a girl. There is no medical condition called 'trans', it's a collection of (mental) symptoms that is called 'trans'.

chrisinthemorning I'm sorry that it annoys you BUT beavers/ scouts etc... are totally separate to guiding!!!! I hate when people think they are the same just because they are traditionally a single sex group. I'm a guider and I'd like to keep it single sex because I think it's important for girls to have a separate group. (I'm not talking about trans though, I think it's fine for a trans girl to join) if scouts want to accept girls then that's up to them. But I don't think it should be 'both or neither'. It's like saying footballers should be given the choice to use a rugby ball if they want or vice versa. The only thing they have in common is they are both a sport!

This has been happening for years, it's been happening long before anyone would have realised.

The difference between then and now is the self identification that has been introduced.

Before this the parent of a transgender child could, and would, have gone and spoken to a leader about the situation, and they would have come up with a way for the child to be included in the group but still respecting everyone's boundaries.

I know that a lot won't agree with me that that was OK, I personally feel it is fine for each circumstance to be fully taken into account and judgements made from there.

For example a leader could let a 10 year old who has gender identity disorder for 5 years and has been presenting as a girl for all that time join but had the option to refuse a 15 year old who has been expelled from school for abusing their female classmates and then began presenting as a girl last week.

This takes judgement and safety measures away from that. Anyone can now say they are female, no matter what they have done, no matter when they decided to 'transition', they don't have to be seeking help or hormones or do anything other than say "I'm a girl today".

It's not transphobic to not agree with self identification, it really isn't.

Marasme, but, what do we disagree over? I'm not trying to be a GF, I'd really like to understand why the erosion of female only spaces is not a concern to all women.

I don't have a problem with any individual - but, when we live in a society where 1:3 of us have been raped by men, 3 women a week are killed by men and we don't get equal pay, well, when are we going to fucking stand up for ourselves and say "we ARE different to and equal with men"?

Isnt there another 444676383282 threads already on this and havent they all just turned into a FWR trans men are all pedos frenzy?

I don't think transwomen are any more likely than any other biological man to abuse children. But the evidence shows they are no less likely.

Soup - ha ha ha ha ha ha

I COULD try telling her not to have sex with them.

I'm fairly sure the Abstinence Education is responsible for a lot of teen pregnancies.

I try telling her to get up earlier. She's still in bed. Doing what teenagers do.

we don't get equal pay

The gender pay gap is a myth

Exactly Soup You could just tell her not to have sex with them

Aside from the No inappropriate touching that as parents we tell our DC's
we also say No sex,
or at least no sex without contraception

Fishinawetsuit

I agree. What frightens me is that we are no longer allowed to acknowledge trans people's biological sex, even when it is entirely relevant.

I'm pretty sure they won't be able to just chuck on a dress and work closely with young girls. They are going to have to be living AS a woman which means that they are a woman. Plus it's not only men that are paedophiles so just because they are there doesn't mean they are a paedophile. That could be the current female leader. Your title is misleading. They are not letting males in at all and even if they were there is no need to be furious about it it's 2017 for god's sake.

Of course you teach your DCs about No sex stealth.

Just

Oh. Ok then.

Shame that children making decisions which affect them into adulthood, robbing them of their fertility, meaning they will have a lifetime of medical intervention, before they are old enough to be deemed responsible enough to drink, have sex, get married or join the Armed Forces isn't a myth too.

I'm pretty sure they won't be able to just chuck on a dress and work closely with young girls. They are going to have to be living AS a woman which means that they are a woman

Nope, self identification means they don't even have to chuck on a dress, they merely have to say they are a woman.

Norma - yep. Naturally, I do.

Oddly though, despite loving parents saying exactly that, young teens are having sex.

Surely this isn't news?