Furious: Girl Guides now admitting boys

[shinynewusername]

Sorry for DM link but this is important. Brownies and Guides are going to admit boys if they identify as girls. Girls will have to share 'single sex' facilities including tents & changing rooms with them. Parents won't be told. Oh, and men who identify as women can become Brownie & Guide leaders, where they will get to supervise girls in those tents, changing rooms etc.

How is this possible? There is an epidemic of sexual abuse. We are still in the fall-out of Rotherham, Saville etc yet we are enabling men to have access to every safe space for girls. AIBU?

I'm glad this is getting mainstream attention even if it is from that disgusting rag, who have obviously lifted the story from MN threads.

I'm not that concerned about trans leaders and helpers as there do seem to be very strict safeguarding measures in place. I'm more concerned about girls being expected to share tents and facilities with transgirls on camp and their parents not being informed of this.

Transgirls are male and should not be sleeping in with girls, any more than any other male should.

Men have been able to be members of girl guiding for ages, as unit helpers and dads can help out on parent rotas. All subject to the same safeguarding procedures as women.

^ this

for you OP

Unless you'd like to level accusations of perverse interest against children too?

Not of perverse interest, no. Of perfectly normal sexual attraction between biological boys and biological girls.

Why do we have sex-segregated facilities at all?

same nick.
my dd's are far more tolerant

Glad their tolerant, Norma hope you don't go through what my sister did when my niece got pregnant.

Many scouts/ cubs groups etc have female leaders, do people assume that the lady Akela gets changed with her charges?

Yep good point

The niece got pregnant, it does take two you know.
and dont judge one person calling themselves non binary with all boys who identify as girls.

They key is wherever your DC go they should be free to be Heard and Listened to and to Say No to touching.

stealth - under the definition, you would assume that said penis owner would intent / want to use it when in fact they identify as female?

What is the likely statistic?
From the same reasoning - do we have to "fear" less from girls? Pregnancy-risk apart, girls can also be predatory. And develop consensual relationships in these tents.

Actually, fuck that - let's suspect everyone, put chaperones everywhere. And tell our daughters that the entire world is twisted and wants inside their pants. That there should be "equal opportunities", but not for "these types of people". Ironic considering the marches just yesterday.

Personally, I think a shed load more women abuse children than the stats account for. Dc find it hard enough to reveal abuse, and even harder if it's a woman/girl doing it. Also men use women to abuse, so women become abusers as a proxy for men.

The boys clubs have been including girls for many years now. This is no different. If the child protection policies are followed then the risk abuse from other children and adults should be greatly reduced and the ability to whistle blow should be much higher.

The risks are always there from both sexes ime, but reduced by record checks on application, rules which state you are not allowed to be alone with a child, you aren't allowed to use your mobile phone near children, you aren't allowed to have inappropriate contact and also the whistle blowing proceedures are much better eg. you report anything you think is odd and are allowed to chase up what has happened as a result of your report and if you're not happy with it, you go up to the next level of safety officer.

And tell our daughters that the entire world is twisted and wants inside their pants.

So are you happy for your daughters to share all sleeping and changing facilities with boys? If not, why not?

Men commit 97% of sexual offences. Men are far more sexually predatory than women. It is not 'equality' to lie and pretend that girls are at equal risk from men and women.

Even if you accept that a trans-girl is, to all intents and purposes a girl. How do you reconcile that with the fact that they are likely to still possess male genitalia and be attracted to girls. Being trans does not magically change your sexual orientation. So a sexually active trans-girl who is attracted to girls, would consider herself a lesbian with a penis. Which is pretty much exactly the same thing as putting a non-trans-boy in there. Probably not too much of a problem with a 10-year-old, but for older ages it is.

I'm sure there are many liberal parents who don't mind this. But how is it 'progressive' to tell other girls to just get over it.

but, Norma, they are young and daft.

There's two girls in my 13 year old DD's year whom I know to have had abortions. Both from sensible families, lovely girls that I've known since they were 2.

13 and in an abortion clinic. That didn't happen because they weren't free to say no! It wasn't assault. WEll, legally it is, but, emotionally, the two "couples" believed themselves to be in love.

Too young to understand about contraception and what sex actually is.

Poor kids, the boys and the girls both. Just a shame.

Oh, the sensible parents were letting the kids have time alone in bedrooms mind.

No fucking way is my 13 year old going to be in a tent with anyone with a penis. Nope.

when in actual fact it's 'boys and men who identify as female' which is straight away a completely different thing

How is it different? 80% of men who identify as women have no undergone any gender reassignment treatment and most are sexually attracted to women.

It's different because if it were boys and men in general, you are potentially talking about every Brownie and Guide group in the country suddenly taking on several male members. If it's boys and men who identify as women, then we're realistically talking about a tiny number of people in a tiny number of groups. The vast, vast majority of groups will not be affected in all likelihood. This is exactly why some people (and often publications like DM) don't make the distinction or if they do it's played down, because it all sounds much more dramatic and exciting and everyone can really get enraged about it if we ignore the facts.

A lot of this is by the by anyway, because as others have said, there are safeguarding measures to prevent adults from being in one to one contact with the children at these groups. As far as boys sharing tents etc. with girls, I do think that's a valid concern but I think it could be discussed much more constructively if people would put their pitchforks away.

boys - no
boys who identify as girls - yes
that's called tolerance, acceptance, and not seeing evil everywhere.

men commit 97% of sexual offences - maybe, but they aren't "men who identify as women". Now - do you have a statistic for those, in the right age group and gender orientation?
Quit misusing number.

What about trans boys then? I.e. Young girls who identify as boys? Will they now be excluded?

Men who identify as women commit crimes at exactly the same rate as men who identify as men - study here

And?

As the first girl Scout in my area I see no issue with either gender joining either organisation, even less so if they identify as a different gender to how they appear physically.

I don't know why they would want to join Guides though, it was so wet when I went, hence joining Scouts instead.

Marasme
*stealth - under the definition, you would assume that said penis owner would intent / want to use it when in fact they identify as female?

What is the likely statistic?*

AFAIK there are no statistics on how sexually active trans girls are. We can only go on the number of youths using the sexual health clinics - and that's shed loads of them.

I am not sure why you think my issue is based on a worry about predatory behaviour - It's that I don't want my 13 year old daughter sleeping with anyone who has a penis.

I really don't see why the trans child's rights trump my daughter's rights to a single sex space, OR that parents of a trans child have more right to privacy than mine does.

That's not equality.

Everyone says it's about the adults until they're told that no leader is ever 1:1 with s girl, that leaders don't watch children change, that extensive safeguarding practices are followed. Then it's about boys (trans girls) sharing tents with girls. Despite the fact that the hysteria is over adult male paedophiles.

My DDs are still young, but when they are teenagers and want to go on guide camps and school residential trips, I would want and expect them to be in single -sex accommodation. Not because males are all sexual predators, but because teenagers will experiment. Yes, I know that they will find ways and times to do this but shared accommodation will make that a whole lot easier. If it isn't an issue, then why have we always separated on the basis of sex? I do wonder what the reaction would be if a school or youth group just decided to allow all children to share accommodation on residentials. Is that considered perfectly normal and ok now? And if not, why is it different for trans children?

Shiny the problem you have, and need to get over, they're not boys! They are girls with a medically proven condition. Having to disclose to other parents that your daughter albeit a trans daughter has a penis is exactly the same as you having to disclose that your daughter has a vagina. For the sake of this club and it's purpose there is absolutely no need for anyone to tell anyone what genitals their children have.

Datun A trans girl is just as likely to be a lesbian as a naturally born girl. Would you prefer to out gay children, transgender children, hermaphrodites and anything that you don't consider normal before they are allowed entry into a club? I suspect not.

Harder - I'm not hysterical

Two of my daughter's 13 year old peers got pregnant by 14 year old partners. No one in that scenario is a paedophile.

It's not hysterical, it's my right, as the parent of a young woman, to stipulate that she is not sleeping overnight in a room with young men.

That's how I see my parental responsibility. I'm not alone in that.

And, Guiding is supposed to be a female space. We need female only spaces, we really do.

Missing the point (know nothing about trans stuff) but it annoys me that Beavers/ Cubs/ Scouts is now mixed while Rainbows/ Brownies/ Guides remains single sex. I think it should be both or neither. Boys need single sex groups too.

The advice always trotted out to parents of boys complaining that there are not boy only spaces is to set one up themselves. So, there is your answer.