Bully and party invite

[bonnieweelass]

My DD is going to be 9 in a few weeks and is at school in scotland. There are two classes for her age group due to pupil numbers and every year they tend to change pupils around. There's another wee girl (let's call her jenny) who until this year, with the exception of primary 1, has been in the other class.

Jenny has taken a real dislike to my DD this year. Kicking, pulling hair, shouting, scratching. DD has not yet retaliated but I worry it will happen as she's getting more wound up by jenny.

Jenny's mum until this year was a teacher at the school but now teaches elsewhere.

I've spoken to the school twice now both by phone and by letter. Most recent call was yesterday so will see if anything changes. Both girls were spoken to apparently but Jenny refused to apologise or shake hands DD tells me.

However DD has given out her party invites. I told her not to exclude Jenny because she needs to be kind even if Jenny is not. DH number on the invite and we've just had this text from Jenny's mum:

"I am texting you with regards to the invitation we have received to your child's party. Jenny will not be attending this party".

I'm a bit as there's no "thank you" or "sorry" and it's all really formal, not even mentioning DDs name which she knows having taught DD two years ago.

DH has not replied, he's just shrugged his shoulders and said "tossers".

What do MNetters think?

'If Jenny's mum was at the school until a few months ago she is in the best position to know what the truth of the matter is'

was that a deliberate attempt to play devils advocate? Many parents would rather the ground swallowed them than admit their child is a bully. This is a child who has physically assaulted the OP's daughter. She should have been suspended for that.

'If 2 phone calls and 2 letters to the school have resulted in one chat and an encouraged handshake the school clearly don't think of this is an issue of 1 child bullying another.'

Some schools are shit at dealing with bullying.

That is true. But the fact the school don't seem to see it as a one-sided thing coupled with the other mum seeming annoyed that her child has been invited to the op's dd's party would suggest to me that 'Jenny' may well have been saying the same things to her mum abut being bullied.
Sometimes schools deal badly with bullying and sometimes parents cry bullying when 2 children clash and they refuse to accept that their child could possibly do anything mean so it must be all the other child.

The OP says she invited Jenny to show how to be kind even when others aren't. I think that's a good quality to have personally

And personally I taught my son to ignore the bully (kind of hard when he was getting psychologically and physically abused on a daily basis) rather than be "kind" to someone who clearly was out to humilate and destroy him. Your defintion of kind is clearly different from mine.

I think if there was an ongoing feud between the two girls then the school should have tried to help them sort it out in a proactive way - asking them to shake hands most certainly does not enable this. Instead they've let it get to a stage where a 9 year old is physcially attacking another. In one year she'll be the age of criminal responsibility. It's not responsible of the school to not address issues that are happening on their watch, whether it's one child or both of them.

*The OP says she invited Jenny to show how to be kind even when others aren't. I think that's a good quality to have personally.

I told her not to exclude Jenny because she needs to be kind even if Jenny is not*

There's kindness, and there's being a doormat. Inviting your abuser into your party/home/private life is definitely the latter.

It will also make the DD think that abuse is acceptable, which is a very dangerous message to send out.

If Jenny invited your daughter to a party would you have accepted??

Inviting a bully to the party is indicating that you are better than she is. You are being magnanimous. It was absolutely the right thing to do. It clearly struck a chord with the bully's mother.

I agree with CaraAspen.

You are absolutely not a bigger and better person by inviting your child's bully into their home on their birthday, and telling them that they have to do it "to be kind".
From the child's point of view; the other child's feelings are more important that hers, just so Mum can feel self righteous and bigger and better.
What a load of bollocks

The last thing a child needs when they are being physically assaulted at school is to have that person at their special time, in their own home and having to be polite to them cos its the 'nice' 'bigger' thing to do.

When did the feeling of a bully come first?

Why should a child feel intimidated in their own home just because it looks'better' to be nice to people than put yourself first.

No way would any child who regulary physically attacks my kids be anywhere near them out of school.

If someone attacked you in a pub would you invite them home for drinks, coffee afterwards? I doubt it, you would choose to have nothing more to do with them. So why should a child have that choice taken away from them. A child should feel that they are safe in their own home and that in their parents eyes they come first.

By inviting them you are telling your child that the violence doesnt matter their feelings dont matter and you are happy to have the bully in your home regardess of what the bully has done.

No she would have been considering her daughters feelings.

Jenny has taken a real dislike to my DD this year. Kicking, pulling hair, shouting, scratching. DD

Why should someone who has done that to your child be actually invited to share her special time.
Why would you force your child to spend her special time on edge wondering when she was going to kick her, etc and have to be nice to someone who has physicaly assaulted her more than once?

If you child was assaulted in the street would you invite the person who did it to their birthday party?

My son was bullied a lot in High school and am sorry to say that the school were totally useless in addressing the problem, even after hard evidence was given to them.... Their excuse for the bully was that he was a great rugby player????

Because of the affect that it had on my son I changed his school and got together with parents of other children who were experiencing same situations and we developed an anti-bullying organisation. Working alongside the police and local radio we went into schools doing workshops. I do need to stress that not all schools were happy to invite us in, they on occasion even stressed that they had no bullying in their school!!!!

During these workshops we worked with both bullies, victims and their parents. We heard so many statements like "my daughter wouldn't do anything like that she has a pony" (which is the one that sticks in my mind"), " No way would my Ds bully anyone he is a softy at home" etc from the parents of the bullies.

One thing that was very apparent was that some of the bullies were actually victims of bullying outside the school environment, which was leading to them finding someone who they thought they could hurt and intimidate to make them feel powerful. Please do not think that I am sticking up for anyone that bullies, I most definitely am not!!!!!! what I am saying is that there are reasons why people bully that need addressing by the relevant agencies and parents/guardians etc.

OP I think you were right in the way you have handled this situation and agree that the mother's reply to the invitation was worded in an official manner. IMHO she is a teacher and will have come across bullying during her career and witnessed the affects it has on the victims, so if Jenny has told her that it is her that is the victim surely she would have been in contact with the school to try and put procedures in place to bring an amicable conclusion to the situation.

I didnt say I was RIGHT.

I said what I thought of the situation, what I would do. I asked questions. That is not stating I am always right. Its a forum up for debate. Up for differing opinions (and there are more than just me who have said the same)

Having seen schools approach to bullying failing miserably I have no doubts that the teacher and the school have not dealt with the bullying properly, perhaps the teacher is in denial perhaps she is embarassed.

But IMHO its not the op's daughters job to make the bully feel 'included' and 'wanted', she is probably the last person she wants at her birthday party. I know my kids definately said they were not inviting 'so and so' because of their bullying.

I find it a bit ironic that OP is posting because she is pissed off with the teachers reply to her invite, pissed off enough to come on here and talk about it, pissed off that she didnt get a 'naice' reply or 'thank you' ....

How pissed off do you think her daughter is that she has been hit, kicked, hair pulled, scratched and shouted at yet she is brushing that under the carpet so she looks like she isnt 'excluding' someone from 'her' party.

I wonder if the posters (one in particular) who seem outraged that parents would not invite their child's bully to their party are in fact the parents of bullies, who have been excluded from parties - Because they are bullies??

Glad she is not coming to party.

I'm surprised your dd has not retaliated. The school sounds like they are not taking this seriously.

"DD wasn't made to apologise just shake hands and be friends again but Jenny refused to shake hands."

Does your dd want to be Jenny's friend?

Agree with LagunaBubbles "No-one needs to be "kind" to someone who is bullying them, child or not." I agree with this.

Yes, I know it has been said before but it is a free country!

bonnieweelass ignore the text, enjoy the party, MAKE school take bullying issues seriously (in no particular order).

I would probably be super, sickeningly, nice in response. Thanking them "so much" taking the time to RSVP and let you know- saying it was so kind of them....

Yep, I'd aim for a guilt trip!

Well I applaud Bonnieweelass for your honesty and integrity. you went through correct channels to address the bullying once you knew. Both children were asked to shake hands and Jenny chose not too.

I believe inviting only the main friendship group who your child plays with each lunch/snack time is plenty for birthday parties. This solves the problem of not inviting children who your child is not good friends, in this case, Jenny due to previous bullying.
You chose a whole class party, invited whole class, no exclusions, no singling out of one child from the whole class, which would be bullying by exclusion- two wrongs do not make a right. It is heartbreaking when a child is bullied, but in this situation the Mum trusts thee child to behave at a whole class party, with lots of adult supervision, I assume.
Jenny's Mum opted out, her choice, no problem, whatever.

No need to put game face on, or be haughty or offended.

Why carry on with the game playing?  It has to end somewhere- hopefully the parents can be fair and respectful as an example to the children.

I'd be very very grateful that she's not coming. If I were your DD, I'd be quite upset that I'd had to invite her in the first place.
It might be "nice", "gracious", "being the better person" and all that shiz, but what it boils down to is "accept the shit this person gives you and STILL be nice back" - setting them up nicely to be a victim of abuse in the future. :(

It's a hard line to draw - but under the circs, I'd have limited the numbers to maybe 6, not invited all the other girls so that the bully, by your reckoning, HAD to be included.

And bollocks does the ex-teacher "know the truth better" - I used to go to school where at least 3 teachers had DDs in my year, and one of them was a complete bully! But the bollocks she told her mum was believed far more than the bullied kids were, purely because she WAS a teacher's DD!

I don't go in for all this "reconciliation" nonsense either. It's a soft option. At DS1's school, they do that - and also "letters of apology". Well one kid I know had written at least 5 letters of apology (and that's only the ones I know about!!) in the space of 2 terms - didn't seem to make a blind bit of difference to his behaviour, because how did it hurt him at all? It didn't!

Quite cross for your DD, really.

I wouldn't have invited 'Jenny' in the first place irrespective of her being the odd one out. She may choose her actions but she can't choose the consequences of them.

With 4 anklebiters I've had to deal with various bullies over the years. In school is by far the easiest to deal with believe it or not.

Face to face the Headteacher for a written copy of the school's official anti-bullying policy and then insist on a joint meeting with Jenny's parent(s) if it continues. Don't forget that the school has a duty of care whilst your daughter is with them. Remind them. Firmly.

I advise my biters that in the first instance they should shout for the person annoying them to stop whatever they were doing and we practice being REALLY loud at home. In the event that they are being physically hurt and can not take evasive action and/or shout then they know they have my full support in defending themselves to the best of their ability.