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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What daughter said happened

234 replies

hils1979 · 16/01/2017 22:57

First post, please be gentle!
My 5 yr old daughter has told me tonight that 6 boys in year 2 have twice (today and last Friday) cornered her in the playground, pulled her tights and knickers down, and looked and laughed at her girly bits.
This is the first I've heard of something like this and I'm shocked!!!
I know boys will be boys... but seriously?? Also she said she told 2 teachers and the head. But why hasn't anyone told us?
AIBU to think be the school should have contacted me and told me? Reassured me they were aware and dealing with it? Have they told the parents of the boys? Awkward as 3 are pretty good friends of mine.

OP posts:
blueskyinmarch · 17/01/2017 09:41

This is about needing to talk to these boys about the inappropriateness of their behaviour. It should not be about calling the police or trying to criminalise them. It needs to be dealt with but in a proportionate and helpful way.

ICanCountToOneHundred · 17/01/2017 09:50

I hope the meeting goes well this morning op.

ailPartout · 17/01/2017 09:54

"Even if you ignore the sexual element, they ganged together, cornered a smaller child, ignored her autonomy and scared her."

Absolutely.

"This will not be the only bullying incident they are involved in, either."

What are you basing that on. I can guess not experience.

Does anyone else remember the boys always used to pull our skirts up?

No.

Or kisschase? Playing doctors and nurses?

What was wrong with this?

TheElephantofSurprise

Police first, for advice. Then school.
Kick up the biggest stink in the universe.
And find your daughter another school.

Alternatively, be an adult! Find out what happened. Assess the situation. Discuss it with teachers, their seniors and your daughter and husband. Perhaps even MN although based on some replies here, I'm not sure that's the best advice.

user1467719385

It is similar because I think in the vast majority of cases, there won't have been a sexual element in the boys' minds.

You should have been brought up to know this was unacceptable and the best thing you could have done was get an adult involved. The boys should have been brought up to know this was unacceptable. I'm not for a second suggesting this is a a "boys will be boys" situation but that children behaving entirely inappropriately is different to an adults behaviour.

Nipping it in the bud and dealing with it appropriately and proportionately are what's required.

They ARE children and they need adults to show them where the boundary is, and when normal curiosity becomes something completely and utterly unacceptable.

Absolutely. I would deal with this extremely seriously. As you said though, they are children and would remember that. Calling the police is unnecessary as is accusing them of sexual assault.

You said that this is not the same as the climbing incident but didn't pull up a PP when comparing it to Brock Turner adn that rape.

smileyhappypeople · 17/01/2017 10:04

Oh my word! Some people on this site really do get ridiculous! The police?? Safeguarding?? Ofsted. !!! Really??!! These are boys who are 6/7 and while they definitely need a very strict talking to I think there are some massive over reactions on here! 'Boys will be boys' may be a silly comment to make but I don't think she is a million miles away.... at this age children are curious about each other's bits and it was unlikely to be a sexual thing.
Don't get me wrong though they absolutely need telling that this is completely unacceptable and op needs to speak to the school immediately and make sure they take it seriously but I really don't think there needs to be involvement from any other agency unless the school don't do anything and these boys certainly don't need to be labelled as sex offenders ffs!
She also needs to get the full story too... her dd may not have told the full story to the teachers so they may not have known the seriousness.

picklemepopcorn · 17/01/2017 10:08

Ailpartout,
In my experience as a teacher, children who gang up on smaller children and upset them once are likely to have done it more than once.
I'm guessing I'm older than you, or perhaps lived in an old fashioned area! Looking up girls skirts, bursting into the girls bathrooms, pulling their skirts up was very normal in my primary school.
Do you know the game that used to be called 'doctors and nurses'? I'm not sure if you think it is about children dressing up and role playing. It isn't, it's about children inspecting each other's privates and can easily get abusive or is it in fact by definition abusive?.

SuburbanRhonda · 17/01/2017 10:11

Somebody should tell social services to keep an eye on the boys who have done this, but that isn't your responsibility.

Social services has neither the capacity nor the remit to "keep an eye on" anybody, unless it's following an assessment and a plan being put in place.

Slimmingsnake · 17/01/2017 10:26

My son is in yr 2.if god forbid my son had done this.... I would expect a total bollocking from the school as well as a temporary exclusion...I would expect to be told what he had done so I could punish him at home...this is not boys will be boys...these are 7 year old boys who should bloody well know better

SuburbanRhonda · 17/01/2017 10:28

We know they're in year 2, slimming, but we don't know how old they are. It may not seem significant but it's really important to stick to the known facts in cases like this.

Gooseberryfools · 17/01/2017 10:29

It needs to be dealt with and then recorded under safe guarding so that all angles are covered (just in case) and the boys have clear boundaries.

Having the issue recorded under safe guarding doesn't mean they are sex offenders or being abused. Their behaviour could be simply inappropriate horse play. However it would be awful if there were numerous incidents that different staff failed to record and therefore the bigger picture was missed. The school could easily fail in its duty of care to all the children.

Gooseberryfools · 17/01/2017 10:30

The schools safeguarding records

Gooseberryfools · 17/01/2017 10:32

The police and ofsted do not need to be involved.

Just basic recording as safeguarding.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 17/01/2017 10:36

I would say that Doctors and Nurses tends to be consensual. this is not remotely consensual. The fact that a group of boys were involved hints at the possibility of a nasty culture emerging within the school.

Gooseberryfools · 17/01/2017 10:37

Exposing someone against their will is very humiliating.

Mollyringworm · 17/01/2017 10:38

Any progress yet op? Please keep us updated I'd love to know what the school have to say.

Also Fortunately I could this morning when I dealt with an attempted murder pushing another girl off the climbing frame! - this made me Grin

ArcheryAnnie · 17/01/2017 10:38

The school should have notified you immediately once they had been told by your daughter. My DS when tiny was repeatedly grabbed in the willy by another boy, and when I raised it immediately with the teachers after DS told me, the parents of the other boy were called in. (I didn't know this was going to happen.)

I might mention it to the police - not because I would expect them to do anything if the school were handling it correctly, but because I would want an official record of it happening somewhere other than the school.

Six and seven year-olds should know not to do this. There is no excuse at all.

MassDebate · 17/01/2017 10:43

Some of the responses to this are somewhat hysterical. Yes, this needs to be dealt with properly by the school and the boys involved reprimanded, but these are boys of 6, maximum 7. 6 and 7 year old boys can be extremely silly and probably have no concept of how inappropriate this behaviour is. (I say this as the parent of a 6yo boy.) If the school deals with it properly, they will learn not to do it again.

To answer the OP's question though, of course the school should have informed you of this and I agree you absolutely need to raise this with them and find out what they are doing to ensure it is not repeated.

SparkyBlue · 17/01/2017 10:44

OP I hope your meeting went well

jinglestheelf · 17/01/2017 10:46

I hope you get to the bottom this. I have a 6 year old boy and I would be horrified if he had been doing anything like that. In reception he told me the boys were flashing their bits at each other and giggling but nothing like this.

unlucky83 · 17/01/2017 10:53

I'm in Scotland so maybe a bit different (and will be different again if the 'named person' nonsense comes in).
I am pretty sure here it would go to the safeguarding/child protection person at the school. There is one person responsible for this for every child (think they have a proper title but can't remember it!).
They are informed of incidents -even small ones that are a bit hmm - and it gets logged on a child's record. If there are a number of incidents, or they are following a pattern, that should raise a red flag and social services would be informed.
I was told this cos I was bit concerned about a child - a long story, a few minor incidents I knew about that made me worry that the mother (no dad around) was struggling, not coping very well. (I didn't know them well enough to ask - or offer help/support).
None bad enough to think they needed 'reporting to social services' but still.....thought someone should know. I asked a teacher friend (from a different area) what they thought. Apparently they were safeguarding issues and the fact I had told them meant they then had a duty to report it to the school (and they did).
But I could, and should, have just told the 'child protection person' at school myself, in confidence. They should be in a position to see the whole picture and your small bit of information might be an important part of that.
(Pretty sure the parent did eventually get the help and support they needed - thankfully I've not seen anything concerning for years now. )

MiscellaneousAssortment · 17/01/2017 10:59

I hope it went ok this morning OP

Mollyboom · 17/01/2017 11:17

I can categorically say , through working in this area,that this is not a matter for the police. Theses are6/7 year old boys. It is a matter that can be dealt with in school in a rational adult manner, without any need for the hysteria. These are not sex offenders they are small children. Do any of you outraged posters have boys? God forbid if they did something out of curiosity and playground bravado. Yes children do try and look at each other's bits and the changing rooms of the opposite sex hold a fascination for all. I can clearly recall small boys trying to lift my skirt in primary, I dealt with it and do not consider myself traumatised by theses incidents. Yes, words around boundaries will need to happen but ffs a little bit of perspective please. Do you think every small boy who runs around flashing his willy and laughing grows up to be a sex offender?

WobbleYourHead · 17/01/2017 11:54

I'm glad there has been a "voice of reason" on this. Yes it's awful but the age of the children suggests bullying as opposed to sexualised behaviour. Hope your meeting went OK op.

ailPartout · 17/01/2017 12:27

I'm guessing I'm older than you

No Idea pickleMe. I was born in the 60s but never had my skirt lifted without my permission or while under-16. Well, 15, if we're picky.

Looking up girls skirts, bursting into the girls bathrooms, pulling their skirts up was very normal in my primary school.

I pity you. I have no idea what this has to do with the thread though.

Do you know the game that used to be called 'doctors and nurses'? I'm not sure if you think it is about children dressing up and role playing. It isn't, it's about children inspecting each other's privates and can easily get abusive

I've never heard of 'Drs and nurses' as an allusion to inappropriate games for children.

I guess we had very different upbringings.

I'm still a little confused as to what this has to do with the thread.

BriefExclamations · 17/01/2017 12:33

I suggest people are cautious about recalling any similar incidents or whatever... just in case..

Rachie1986 · 17/01/2017 12:40

Hope you got on ok this morning OP