Males in female prisons

[WankingMonkey]

I have noticed a fair bit of support for 'identification' over sex on MN. I am just wondering what peoples opinions are on males wanting into female prisons because they are 'trans'?

If possible, have a think, write out a reply...and [i]then[/i] read this

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/soham-child-killer-ian-huntley-9626220

As I have seen many defenses along the lines of 'noone would pretend to be a woman' and such. But here we have a clear example of this in action. And it is impossible to let 'some' do it and not others, isn't it. You can't make laws without clear boundaries of course.

I actually can't believe it has taken someone like Huntley to wake up a fair few of my friends, this is all over my facebook today with people suddenly u-turning on their previous stance...

What has then the change in law in 1991 got to do with anything?

At the time the legal definition was rape could not happen in a marriage.

The law rightly changed. What's the relevance 26 years later? There was also a time when there was no law against rape. Doesn't mean that today, rape doesn't exist or isn't illegal.

ailpartout to stop our special snowflakes from melting
Yeah, you just showed your true colours there , didn't you.

The law was wrong. Fairly simple explanation.

But now it's in your favour it's clearly correct?

And actually I said definition. I didn't say legal definition if you want to be pedantic.

Were you quoting the OED?

This sums up whatever argument I'm against. Everything is wrong unless you agree with it.

Only men can rape because that's the definition. Men couldn't rape their wives before 1991? Well, the definition was wrong.

If my son had a big old dildo stuck up his arse by a baying horde of women then damn sure I'd be calling it rape. If anyone quoted definitions I'd want to punch them in the throat as much as a raped housewife in
1990 would.

What does this have to do with anything?

This is becoming much more graphic than I ever wanted but there was a girl in India killed with a metal pole (not a penis). I want the perpetrators hung from a pole. Do you disagree? Would you be reminding everyone of definitions?

I want nothing more than equality. I'm yet to be shown that major contributors want anything other than 'down with men'!

ail you really want a world where there are no women participating in the Olympics or any other high level sport? Where a lot of women just wouldn't be able to take part at all because they'd never make the team/squad/qualifying time etc?

You think that all women who aren't 6ft iron women are special snowflakes and we deserve whatever anyone stronger can do to us?

It's hearsay from 'an unnamed inmate', delivered second hand by a tabloid via the Daily Star Sunday, so clearly all true and worth getting worked up over goady bullshit. I doubt that many trans women would ever have the desire to commit an horrific sexual crime against children, let alone the stomach to actually carry out such an atrocity.

The rape definition is really just semantics ail - in your dildo example this would be (can't remember the exact words) something like "Sexual penetration with a foreign object" and would be taken as seriously as rape, the offender would receive the same sentence. I believe the reason that rape is 'protected' as a male only crime is because of the chances of STIs and pregnancy that are unique to forced PIV. Happy to be corrected though!

If you have a problem with rape definition,petition for a change in the law.

You seem to want an equality where men and women share everything, and I suspect you don't really want that but are using the definition to beat posters over the head with. You'll find most feminists appreciate the differences between men and women and that they should be protected (sex segregated sports etc). Your definition of equality differs to most other people, who want equal opportunities rather than exactly the same as the next person, and it's always been a stick that misogynists seem to beat women with when they can't grasp an argument

There is no reason if this story is true (i.e. that Huntley does want to) that Ian Huntley should not be allowed to transition and move to a women's prison while other pre op transwomen can. Under self identification (which is what transcultists want) he would definitely have to be allowed to, or it would be discrimination.

As i said, happy to talk about sexual assault instead of rape if you'd prefer.

Insertion of a dildo up an anus would be regarded as the same crime regardless of the sex of the victim or perpetrator.

Who in your opinion is more likely to be the perpetrator, a male or a female?

"If my son had a big old dildo stuck up his arse by a baying horde of women then damn sure I'd be calling it rape."

Because that happens all the time? Why are you spouting shit? 90%+ of sex offenders are men, and some of the 'women' are also men (transgender).

Men, as a whole, do not worry about getting raped.

Right, so this is a story run by the tabloid press, based on nothing more than the words of an unnamed former prisoner who has no doubt decided to make a bob or two by making something up and feeding it to the Mirror.

Do I think this story about Ian Huntley wanting to transition is true? Highly unlikely, given the lack of credibility of the source.

Cherry

it's always been a stick that misogynists seem to beat women with when they can't grasp an argument

I'm no misogynist but yes, it would be great if some people here could grasp an argument.

If it comes down to semantics, why is it so important for some posters?

You seem to want an equality where men and women share everything, and I suspect you don't really want that

What makes you think I don't? At the risk of insulting other women here, it's the ones who have underachieved compared to their male counterparts who cry inequality. I don't want to be protected. I want to compete. Professionally, in sports, academically. Someone once told me I was "manlike". 15 years on I'm waiting for an answer as to what they meant. They didn't have the breasts to answer me to my face.

I absolutely want equal opportunities. If anyone told me I couldn't do something because I'm a woman I'd be rightfully pissed off. If I was told I couldn't because I wasn't strong enough, tall enough, fast enough. educated enough, experienced enough, I'd analyse whether I was able to become better at that aspect. I wouldn't want any situation where I was "equal to the next best male candidate if you add on my 20% lady allowance".

If people here want to have the fuck patronised out of them then that's their prerogative but it's theirs and not mine.

titchy

So, if we change rape to include 'not rape' as per your arguement and ever -changing goalposts, why is a man less important than a women? For the sake of this we're defining a man differently as it's currently wrong!

ail "Do you really not see this as stereotyping based on sex"

I see gender as stereotyping based on sex. I see wanting to see a female (sex not gender) doctor as a right. I do not think I have ever requested one but I defend the rights of other females (and males) to do so. However, when this cannot be accommodated then, on an emergency any patient would need to see whoever.

The NHS I'd not a charity I am lucky to receive from, it is a service I and my husband pay for. Our surgery has ale and female doctors. Mine is female and brilliant. But I did not request a female.

Why should a rape victim or victim of male 'domestic' abuse (or any other kind of abuse) have to see a male doctor?

Ourina

Yes

No

No

Yes

But that is down to luck of upbringing and genetics rather than a success on your part

Slightly insulting, don't you think? Or, are some of us predisposed to achieve less or become dominated? Legally or otherwise?

Why is it that someone who underachieves is held back by society but someone who does well is lucky?

ail how can I become 6ft tall please?

Italian

I see wanting to see a female (sex not gender) doctor as a right.

I'm fairly sure you're wrong there.

However, when this cannot be accommodated...

I don't think any legal rights have 'however' in them... Why is that?

Oh, I thought current laws weren't the be all and end all of what constitutes rights in the definition sense? Wasn't that pretty much what you were saying with your example about marital rape?

ail I have to say I find your position utterly bleak and depressing. You would have mixed sex competition in all sports. That would soon mean that very very few women were competing in nearly all sports. Maybe things like equestrian sports and motor sports excepted. There would be no women visible in our media taking part in sport. What do you think would happen to participation rates?

As an aside, would you also get rid of weight categories in sports like weightlifting, judo, tae kwondo etc?

ail why do you not want women's reasonable requests to be accommodated? Really I am quite unsure why anyone would have a problem. My surgery has tons of female doctors. Why would me requesting one be a problem. Does it offend men not to be wanted? This is not about sexism like the old days where women would not work as doctors!

SpeakNoWords Bleak and depressing that women compete against men?

I assume you're in favour of a very much-sloping playing field, telling girls they can never compete with boys unless they're given a boost up.

You'd of course tell them that whilst the bodies are different, we mustn't, for a second, think that our minds are. If anyone does, cry foul and sue them.

As an aside, would you also get rid of weight categories in sports like weightlifting, judo, tae kwondo etc?

Why not? People have asserted I'm usually stronger than some males and many females. I'd be happy to compete in a weight category.

Italiangreyhound

I haven't mentioned reasonable requests being disregarded in a surgery but that when there is an opportunity cost to having both, there be no discrimination and patients of either sex be told who is available.

Ps a right to request a female doctor. clearly if a woman presenting with a heart attach requested a female doctor and one was not around ny doctor would be assigned to her. Plus some may feel that different treatment/body part different opinion. Private parts example verses foot exam. women Mau feel differently. Why is this hard to understand or accommodate?

Do you mean a hospital might only have male doctors in A and E?

No. I'm happy with sport as it is at the moment separated by sex, unless there is a factor that renders sex differences irrelevant such as in equestrian sports. I can't compete with nearly all men, even if I train as hard or harder. I'm shorter, I have a proportionally heavier pelvis, my lungs are smaller etc etc.

What kind of brain differences do you think there are between men and women?

OK so you get why women may want a feel doctor.

Sorry cross posted.

I think of you acknowledge the 'principle' of women potentially wanting female doctors ail then you must see why most women (vast majority) would not want to be in prison with males.