Males in female prisons

[WankingMonkey]

I have noticed a fair bit of support for 'identification' over sex on MN. I am just wondering what peoples opinions are on males wanting into female prisons because they are 'trans'?

If possible, have a think, write out a reply...and [i]then[/i] read this

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/soham-child-killer-ian-huntley-9626220

As I have seen many defenses along the lines of 'noone would pretend to be a woman' and such. But here we have a clear example of this in action. And it is impossible to let 'some' do it and not others, isn't it. You can't make laws without clear boundaries of course.

I actually can't believe it has taken someone like Huntley to wake up a fair few of my friends, this is all over my facebook today with people suddenly u-turning on their previous stance...

noeffingidea

Well, sorry if I assumed it was directed towards me.

I've no doubt you'll back it up with quotes as opposed to disappearing and leading me us to assume it was nonsense.

I'm as strong as any man. I have proved myself over and over again throughout my life and I resent anyone suggesting that the playing filed isn't level as this takes away from my achievements.

Great. Good for you. But I'd bet my bottom dollar if you were ever imprisoned you'd have a very strong preference for a female jail.

Like it or not, male people are physically stronger with a much greater propensity towards violence, often directed at females.

You have contradicted yourself. If you believe men get raped in male only prisons, then you accept that men rape.

Yes.

In that case you are unreasonable not to understand why women need separate prisons from men

That would assume that a) only men rape b) all women are weaker who need protecting from all men ie. basing a split purely on genitalia.

Do you believe we are spilt based on our sexual organs and us of the weaker sex need a leg up or that we are all capable of greatness and there should be no leveling of the playing field?

Of course I would titchy. I'd also be pointing out the fact there's a 1 in 1,000,000,000,000 to one that the DNA was incorrect.

ail I honestly couldn't care less if you think it's nonsense.
If you don't believe that men have an inherent right to access to women at all times then you will consider why sex segregation may be neccesary or preferable in certain situations.
Why do you think sex segregated prisons exist at present? To use your analogy of health care workers, presumably it would be more cost effective and efficient to have one mixed sex unit. After all most other insitutions operate as mixed sex units.

Ian Huntley is a criminal male.
like all criminal males, he should be incarcerated with other criminal males and separated from criminal females.

Feelings/beliefs/clothing/hormonal regimes and surgical alterations are irrelevant. Certificates are irrelevant.

Females should have the right to define themselves in such a way as to categorically exclude any male past, present or future from their definition. And then to insist on that definition being respected.

ailPartout
So you are saying the real problem with rape is that women dont fight back. Because if they did, they wouldnt get raped or beaten up.

Seems like a perfect solution to male violence. So trans men should just fight back in your opinion, they dont need to be put with the lass violent women.

only men rape

Given the definition of rape is that a penis is involved, then yes, only men rape.

"I say, fuck the doubters. I'm as strong as any man. I have proved myself over and over again throughout my life and I resent anyone suggesting that the playing filed isn't level as this takes away from my achievements."

Well no, you aren't. Men are stronger as a class, and the strongest men are stronger than the strongest women.

This is fundamental biology.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism

"That would assume that a) only men rape b) all women are weaker who need protecting from all men ie. basing a split purely on genitalia. "

This is basically accurate. Here's an example of everyday rape culture, from a pizza delivery driver on Reddit: www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5oc251/iama_pizza_delivery_driver_in_a_big_college_town/

She says

"I took a delivery to a basketball game. I had to give the pizzas to the bus driver. We talked for a bit and he seemed totally normal. Then, as I was leaving, he put his arms around me and led me to the bus. He tried to force me in and take my shirt off. I have no doubt that he would have raped me if I hadn't ran when I did."

"It was actually a terrible experience haha. The cop made me feel like it wasn't that big of a deal and that I was just some more paperwork he had to fill out. They wanted me to do a line-up and pick the guy out but I didn't really want to see him again and i opted out. Even if I had done it, the most he could have gotten was a small fine since there was no evidence."

Male reply: "Wow. I cant believe how much i take for granted not being a woman."

Men don't have to worry about these things. Men don't go on round the world treks for peace and then get brutally raped and murdered. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pippa_Bacca

Men can take a job delivering pizzas without risk of being raped.

I'm sick of women being told that they're being hysterical for being afraid of penises.

1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime
1 in 10 people are raped by men, in the UK this figure is 85,000 a year. Around 1,700 will be convicted for this.
1 in 4 women experienice DV.

It's men doing all this. It's not misandry to point out facts. It's not misandry to say that fer of unknown men is justified. Equality is not men and women sharing spaces. Equality would be fewer men committing these crimes so women are more safe. Perhaps if these stats went down I would consider more sharing of spaces.

Too fucking right I want to minimise the opportunity of women being in close spaces with dangerous people who have penises. Implying that is unreasonable is not far off gaslighting.

But then I think when people are on other threads trying to defend a gang of boys who are pulling down the knickers of a 5yo to laugh at her genitals, we shouldn't take their views on the protection of females too seriously

ailPartout
Do you believe we are spilt based on our sexual organs and us of the weaker sex need a leg up or that we are all capable of greatness and there should be no leveling of the playing field?

You;re not an athlete, are you.

"Doesn't this bring us back to my "equality until it suits us to believe otherwise" assertion?

Either we are the same or we aren't. Are you after segregation because men are 'stronger' or for barriers to be removed because women are capable of anything a man is.

So, men are stronger, faster, taller, quicker, (-rapier) but never, ever, ever, ever better at anything in the workplace?"

Female bodies are different from male bodies and that should be acknowledged. It doesn't meant we have different mental capacities.

ail on average, yes women are physically weaker and smaller than men. Lucky for you if you are in the minority.
Public policy isn't determined on an individual basis, as I'm sure you are aware. Prisons are not going to be desegregated because a small minority of women are stronger and taller han a small minority of men.
And to answer your point about only men rape, well only biological males rape since rape is defined as (nonconsensual) penetration by a penis. Its a legal definition.

You are arguing wholesale against any sex segregation at all. That is not what the trans lobbyists want.

Very good point. A lot of this debate is futile as the trans lobby don't want trans people having their own facilities or mixed sex accommodation. They want transwomen (with penises) in women's spaces and transmen (with vaginas) in men's spaces. No compromise. Radical Feminists also do it want sex segregated spaces. No point having something no one wants

Given the definition of rape is that a penis is involved, then yes, only men rape.

only biological males rape since rape is defined as (nonconsensual) penetration by a penis. Its a legal definition.

Does this apply toward the definition of rape within marriage (changed in 1991)? I'll give you a clue: there was no such thing. I bet you everything I own that you refuse to say that a man forcing sex from his wife in 1990 was not rape. Go on. I dare you.

noEffing

Why do you think sex segregated prisons exist at present?

To stop our special snowflakes from melting.

presumably it would be more cost effective and efficient to have one mixed sex unit.

Obviously

I honestly couldn't care less if you think it's nonsense.

And still no quotes to back up your assertions. What does this suggest?

Rose

PizzadeliveryguyonReddit? Hardly sure it would stand up to academic scrutiny!

DJSaggy

You;re not an athlete, are you.

Completed an Iron Man, black belt in Ju Jitsu, a handful of 1/2 marathons... I do okay. If I'd run as a man I'd be around 2/3 down the field. I'd have been very happy with that.

What's your point?

I find it strange that we can argue so vehemently that our bodies are naturally different to men's' but or brains must be the same. Will anyone explain why?

Female bodies are different from male bodies and that should be acknowledged. It doesn't meant we have different mental capacities.

The science is still out on that second assertion yet seems to infuriate many feminists. The first is provably correct in the first and is taken to show women deserve a sloping playing field and protection.

Does this apply toward the definition of rape within marriage (changed in 1991)? I'll give you a clue: there was no such thing. I bet you everything I own that you refuse to say that a man forcing sex from his wife in 1990 was not rape. Go on. I dare you

Why is that relevant? Or are you attempting to say the law should be updated to reflect the notion that women rape men?

ailPartout Whats my point? I thought it was pretty clear.
Why are female athletes slower than men if we are identical?

Your arguments in favour of allowing rapists access to women dont stand up.

titchy

Because you were very clear to emphasise the legal definition. Does the legal definition change when it doesn't suit you?

Given the definition of rape is that a penis is involved, then yes, only men rape.

Given the definition of rape, it couldn't happen within a marriage before 1991. I'd love an answer as opposed to a deflection.

Your arguments in favour of allowing rapist

DJSaggy - you have recently changed transwomen for rapists.... When did that happen?

The law was wrong. Fairly simple explanation. The law is now correct imo. Or do you think rape can be committed by women?

And actually I said definition. I didn't say legal definition if you want to be pedantic.

ailPartout
That comment was in response to your demand for same sex prisons and an end to segregation buy sex.

Stop deflecting.

I'm happy to talk about sexual assault if you'd prefer as that can be perpetrate by someone of either sex.

So how many males commit sexual assault vs females?

most famous according to who?

That's what you're going to try to pick on? Have some dignity!