Some one at the Home Office hasn't thought this through properly

[liberia03]

Wondering if we could have a compassionate thread about UK mothers being told by they may have to leave the country, despite having brought up families here.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/dutchwoman-resident-in-uk-for-30-years-may-have-to-leave-after-brexit

If you've got British kids I would be incredibly surprised if you ended up having to leave. Non EU nationals stay on that basis, either inside or outside the immigration rules. I would hope they'd show common sense overall tbh and at the very least have some sort of transitional arrangement for people who are already here.

Livelovebehappy
We all have the right to choose our own truth, but even on this thread there are already several posters in the same situation. I believe them.

But Britain isn't doing anything - nobody's being sent back anywhere really?

It also needs to be mentioned that any change in legislation may affect the ability of British citizens living overseas to return with their foreign-born spouse and families.

Currently, the returning British citizen needs to show they have a guaranteed job offer in the UK, starting within 3 months of arrival, for at least £18,600pa. Failing that, you need savings of at least £62,500.

This sounds like a workable idea in theory, but, in practice, if the British spouse is a SAHP or in low-paid employment then these rules mean it's almost impossible to return to the UK with your family.

The main alternative available is the Surinder Singh route, where you can temporarily settle in another EU country, and then exercise your right to an EEA family permit and relocate to the UK.

I'm sure UKIPpers would paint this as a sneaky back-door way of getting in, which should absolutely be slammed shut - but its loss will be a huge blow to any British citizen abroad who is a SAHP or in low-paid employment and needs to return with their spouse and family.

I agree tiggy

I'm married to a Brit. Came here 9 years ago, went to university and have been a teacher since then. I don't have private health insurance and didn't know this change was introduced.
I'm a bit at a loss as to what to do. It seems I can't apply for the permanent residency. I didn't really way to change my nationality either What should be my next step? I'm paying tax here and pay a reasonable amount into my pension scheme. Should I look into saving privately instead of into a pension scheme if is not transferable anymore?

It's all such a mess with no clear guidance! And people like my in laws voting leave shows me not just where I stand within this country but also within the family. How sad.

Tuckersbadluck is correct: It is unlawful under EU law -by which we are currently bound- to treat citizens from another EU country differently to the way you treat your own citizens.
The NHS is a residence based system. All UK citizens resident in UK are entitled to NHS treatment regardless of their age, employment status, or contribution record. The same rules have to be applied to EU residents. Both UK and European Courts will uphold this as it is very clear cut.

UK citizens resident in other EU countries have to comply with the rules in force in those countries. This normally means paying for membership of compulsory insurance schemes. If an individual is not working and has independent means, this can be very expensive. But this rule is applied to ALL residents including nationals of the host country so is not discriminatory.

Once the UK leaves the EU - and if no agreement is reached- the government can say that EU nationals are to be treated in the same way as any other third country nationals. But not before.

My 73-year old mother is in the same position as Wolpertinger's - here since the 1960s but didn't take British citizenship as she'd have had to renounce that of her home country. There is no point even looking at that 85-page form. She has never had a household bill in her name (my father took take of all that) and, although she worked for the NHS all her working life, my parents are now retired so wouldn't meet the minimum income threshold. My father, who is a British citizen, would not be eligible to join her in her home country after Brexit, if it came to her having to leave the country.

It's all very well people saying that people like her will never be deported. The discourse around immigration is lurching to the right very fast indeed. Who know what will be considered acceptable in two years' time? I am very worried indeed.

just comprehensive sickness insurance is only required if you're a student or self sufficient. You don't need it if you're working.

We voted to leave the EU, not break off all ties with other EU countries.

One of the first things I hope is agreed after article 50m is triggered is that those here can remain, and those in other EU countries who are British likewise.

This is exactly what people voted for when they voted Brexit. Pretending it will all get sorted out somehow as its obviously a mistake is disingenuous at best.
Stop pretending it isnt happening yet just because they havent been bundled on to the ferry.
Own it. You didnt know what Bexit was exactly and you voted for it anyway.

Liberia Yes, May wants to come out of ECHR, but that's not happening now and won't any time soon - she's got enough to sort out with essential changes needed by brexit. So for now, Art 8 of ECHR is still in force and available should it be needed. But as a I said, I don't think it will come to that, the government will have to come up with an alternative, simply as there is no way to manage the number of human rights claims there would be.

Also, in reference to the form - there's now a much simpler online version for those looking to apply for permanent residence or a registration certificate. Much more user friendly. And you can fill it in on behalf of others for people like elderly parents.

Eatspam Your sister and her husband have paid axes to live in this country and have lived here- had NHS treatment (presumably), used schools, been in a society protected by our polce and legal system etc. I don't understand your point. We don't pay taxes to buy a right to live here in the future.

I am in no way saying I think they should not live here but just don't get your point about taxes.

NI - presumably any pension they have paid into would be paid at that point in the future if they did not live here then.

lord you should check the guidance, there's stuff in it for retired EEA nationals.

Taxes, sorry, not axes 😉

DJ how many millions of people have you spoken to? You have no idea why people voted leave. Maybe the handful of leave supported you surround yourself with did but you cannot possible speak for the others.

Some of this seems to be due to retrospective legislation, which just doesn't seem fair. How can any of us know that what we're doing now might become a crime or a legal requirement in the future.

It seems to break the laws of natural justice.
Being unpaid carer or mother who hasn't been able to or known to pay private health insurance is now grounds for deportation.
I wonder if the present cock up or deliberate foul up in the NHS is to foreground health care in the immigration question.
You can fool some of the people some of the time etc.

If you mother has lived here that long and wishes to remain here, surely she should be a British citizen. If she does not wish to be I don't understand why she wants to stay here for the rest of her life. It implies to me she prefers her country of birth and would wish to return.

If I emigrated to Autralia and chose to remain for the rest of my life, I would expect to have to be an Australian citizen. I might consider myself English but would expect to have to, at least officially, become a citizen of Australia.

AtSea1979 I choose to refuse to believe that all leave voters wanted this.
But the problem was the framing of the referendum legislation and question, not how people chose to vote.

@ARumwithaview: A British citizen has an absolute right to return to UK regardless of income. This applies to criminals, terrorist suspects, those fighting with Daesh etc. It is not true to say they need a certain level of income.

I'm not saying I agree with this, but it's been the case for a long time that if you're an EU national after 3 months you have to be exercising your treaty rights to remain in the UK.

Not quite true. You can be an EU national not exercising Treaty rights as long as you're the family member of one who is. So the Italian SAH spouse of a working Czech national is fine even if they've never worked at all, the same Italian married to a working British spouse is not. I think that's another reason for the confusion.

The major issue here is that people didn't know what the rules were. Including huge numbers in officialdom, so it's not that surprising that EU nationals who technically didn't have the right to reside were often completely unaware of it. The requirement about private insurance actually isn't a new one, but it was a very poorly understood concept and in practice, EU nationals living in the UK have been able to do without it. HO have had the option to remove oodles of EU nationals from the UK in the past because they've never been qualified persons or family members of one, they've just chosen not to exercise it. And as it turns out, now that people know, a lot of them aren't impressed that EU nationals married to British citizens with British kids aren't covered.

I wonder if the referendum result would've been different had more people understood that this is what would happen? All I can say is that those people who voted Leave without realising that they did indeed vote for this are serious about objecting to it. For those reading, you could start registering your anger now. We know that shitloads of Leavers were 'soft'. You're being disenfranchised by the insistence on a Hard Brexit that there's no mandate for, just as much as any Remainer. Get pissed off about it. I would.