Some one at the Home Office hasn't thought this through properly

[liberia03]

Wondering if we could have a compassionate thread about UK mothers being told by they may have to leave the country, despite having brought up families here.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/dutchwoman-resident-in-uk-for-30-years-may-have-to-leave-after-brexit

But you will hear me loud & clear should they try to do this. It's not what the people of this country want, the government will be told, loud & clear.

Go on then, tell them! People are already getting 'prepare to leave' letters. How much closer to deportation do you want them to get before you will speak up 'loud and clear'? Petition upthread and you can find your MP here.

Well they can and will, read Wolpertinger post.

Tbh when people who have voted Leave, which incl my PIL, say they didn't want to send EU citizens away. It reminds me of people who voted Conservative at the last GE but didn't think that the PM would slash benefits or thought it wouldnt apply to them.

The whole campaign was about immigration. I am sure that some people voted Leave but don't want to send EU citizens away but thinking it wouldnt happen was as naive as the people voting conservative who they relied on benefits.

The general political discourse is STILL completely focused on immigration.
So yes I personally believe that they WILL send people away if they don't meet whatever criteria. And the Permanent Residence Card is one way to do so.
If this was not their intend, they would have no reason to tell people who failed to pass said criteria, which is about one THIRD of people btw, that's potentially about ONE MILLION people, that they need to get ready to leave the country. They could just have said, Sorry, you don't fulfill the criteria and you can't get the card.

Fwiw, Britain is one of the very few countries who will treat spouse in that way. Most other countries will let the spouse stay because this would otherwise mean splitting families and putting CHILDREN in a very precarious situation. Or of course, it can also mean you are just sending your own citizen into exile to another country to have dare getting married to someone who isn't from your own country.

On a brit POV, it is worth remembering that the people affected by this ruling aren't just the EU citizens. It's also the very British spouse and the children.
But hey ho....

Unfortunately my MP was staunchly brexit and sent me a fuck off, were leaving, the people have voted for this letter

Hissy I think Leave voters had valid reasons for their choice ( as remainers did).
It was the choice they were presented with, which was daft. Unless it was explained clearly what 'leave' meant. If any one messed up it was David Cameron for caving in to hold the referendum, but I don't think he had a choice. He could have made it clear what the real legal status of a referendum was, but we live and learn.

What seems to be generally clear, so far, on this thread is that people don't want unfair deportations from both sides, and I'm going to take heart from that.

DH and I (German) are currently working our way through the 85page document to apply for residency and I will go the citizenship route. Lovely. I may be here for 17 years, was employed for nearly the same time (2 months less) and have a DD who is British by law, we didn't even have to apply for it.

We don't need health insurance seperately as we both pay NI and tax, have a NI number. It is different if you are here and not working.

I find the amount of "I voted leave but this is not what I wanted" astonishing. Sorry, you asked for it, May & Co make a mess out of it because all the Leave voters didn't think and just fell for empty and wrong promises from people how don't have to worry due to their cushioned life. Thanks a lot. The EU is happy to do a hard Brexit as it will then discourage other countries to think twice. Or go the Norway/Swiss route and pay without having a say. What did you think? They will just agree to everything and let the UK off the hook?

I work for a German company with around 1/3 of EU nationals on staff. The boss doesn't panic but clearly starts worrying that people may leave, have issues because nobody knows until it is too late what documents are required to stay.

I start to think the UK is not the country I came to love. A shame.

I'm not saying I agree with this, but it's been the case for a long time that if you're an EU national after 3 months you have to be exercising your treaty rights to remain in the UK.

I wonder if British ex pats in Europe are to be deported if they don't have health insurance

i think the point is that British ex-pats generally do have the correct insurance that would allow them access to their resident country's healthcare system. It's the existence of the National Health in the UK that's causing the problem for EU citizens in the UK.

According to the European Commission the UK are applying EU law wrongly by insisting on the private health insurance, according to the Commission the right to NHS treatment fulfills that requirement.

I'm surprised nobody's started legal action over this yet.

Only 52% Nora, the 48% who voted remain don't feel that way

The situation is ridiculous. And I also find the comments from vote leave PP shocking in their ignorance. 'Not what I wanted'? Why did you vote for it then?

Oh well at least the NHS is picking up now we have brexit. Oh wait

My situation is the same as Wolpertinger btw.

I'll tell you what is keeping myself up at night.
I have been here for 20 years. I've never exercised my treaty rights. Why should I have done so? Said treaty gave me the right to come and work here, get married, have children?
My dcs are still not independent. DH doesn't speak my language, never bothered to learn it as 'I could stay here wo any issue and why on earth would he learn the language of a country where he would never live?'. That means DH can't come with me to live my what WAS my home country (because let's face it again, after 20 years, I might not be British but I'm not from sait country either. Like most expats, I feel like I belong partly to both places and not none of it).

So what is the prospect for the future? That I will end up on my own in my 'home' country.
I will loose my family and my dcs. I can't even start to fantom the heartache my own dcs will feel if that happens because THEY will loose their family and their mum.
Or we can try and move to another country, which are less likely to accept us because we are both over 40yo.....
That would mean uprooting the whole family, incl th dcs, to somewhere we might really want to leave any way to try and keep the family together....

I will add to that another side that is probably less talked about. PENSIONS.
So here we are, I've spent all my working like in the UK. Britain has frozen the right the move your pension from here to another EU country wondering why.... What will happen when I will (very likely) be deported? Will I also loose all my right re pensions? Despite having worked here all my life and PAID into said pension? And then finding myself with nothing at all?

Buta agin, hey ho. Just a small colletaral damage that Brexit is bringing.

I'm not expecting EU nationals to get deported but I would not be remotely surprised if the government were to start making it much more difficult for these people to access the NHS without having proof of entitlement.

I am surprised that more people didn't vote leave. The British press and sections of the conservative party have equated leaving the EU with political and economic freedom for 40 odd years. I am a remainer, but recognise that Farage did a very effective campaign.

Considering how awful the remain campaign was, and the fact that most people here are affected (best wishes to everyone caught in this) or against these threatened deportations, and that the liberal democrats just won in Sunderland, suggests to me that there are more people against threatened deportations than for them. I could well be wrong, though.

EatSpamAmandaLamb I'm convinced that Irish citizens (at least those with a current link to the UK) will never have to worry about their right to live in the UK. Those rights are nothing to do with the EU and have been written into British law since before the EU existed.

I'm not saying I agree with this, but it's been the case for a long time that if you're an EU national after 3 months you have to be exercising your treaty rights to remain in the UK.

But the comprehensive sickness insurance requirement was only (very quietly) introduced in 2015 and to get PR you need to show you have been insured for the whole of the time you have been resident here. It's a massive gotcha which I can't help thinking is deliberate.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs that's awful, I am so sorry and the pensions thing too is .
Now I am getting ashamed.

I also maintain that the one thing that is never talked about is ALL THE BRITISH CITIZENS thatnwill be affected by such a move.
All the spouses and children and parents who will find themselves separated from their own family.

1 millions people potentially deported for not meeting the criteria is a hell of BRITISH PEOPLE affected because of their family link with said EU citizens.

I'm always astonished to see that there is always talks about EU citizens on their own, as if they had no tie with Britain and them leaving will have no effect on BRITISH people at all.

What about all of those people? ARent they worth some compassion too?

Because the reality is that yes I feel crap at the idea that I might well have to leave. BUT I feel even more crap about the pain this will give to my children and my DH. They didn't choose that either!

PencilsInSpace so it was introduced pre referendum? Strange.

I don't think they will actually throw anyone who has been here a long time and built a life here out, I think the outcry would be too great. But I think the way the government is using EU citizens resident here as a bargaining chip, and putting them through so much worry, is disgustingly cruel. One of the many, many things blighting our lives and our country and threatening our futures since that bloody stupid vote.

Why on earth are leavers surprised this is a possibility? Surely if you voted leave you did so knowing that some kind of curb on immigration was part of the deal? It is not only people settled here, is it ? It's the millions of Brits with work, families etc in Europe who are facing the same thing in reverse. If you voted leave, you told the Government you had no issue with immigration being 'sorted out'.

But you will hear me loud & clear should they try to do this. It's not what the people of this country want, the government will be told, loud & clear.
It's EXACTLY what some leave voters want. Why do you think BNP, EDL, NF and a lot of Kippers voted leave?
As others have said, if you're a leaver and it's not what you want, get writing to your MPs and putting your views out clearly and loudly on social media.

I'm an expat and I'm terrified. Genuinely terrified. I haven't slept properly since June and am now having to take anti anxiety medication after being rushed to hospital with chest pains.

I can't believe the gall of some leave voters bleating 'I never voted for this'. Yes you bloody did.

I have a friend in a similar position to you Martians the uncertainty for her and her family is causing great distress

Always seems strange to talk about 'British' in a country whose English language comes from France, Italy , Germany, Scandinavia, Celtic and Eurasian.
So many 'British' people have grand parents not born here, what does that make us?!

liberia03

That's not awful. That's the stark reality for a lot of EU citizens.
That's what people who voted Leave voted for. It was plastered all over the place.

And YY pencil about the changes very quietly introduced (by TM of course).
Just think about it. Less than 2 years ago, you didn't need an insurance. But now you are asked to prove you've had one for 5 years, that is 3 years BEFORE the change was introduced.
And of course, no one talked about it. Not even my own ambassy that is very good at keeping people up to date with legal changes.