Some one at the Home Office hasn't thought this through properly

[liberia03]

Wondering if we could have a compassionate thread about UK mothers being told by they may have to leave the country, despite having brought up families here.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/dutchwoman-resident-in-uk-for-30-years-may-have-to-leave-after-brexit

I voted to leave.

But you will hear me loud & clear should they try to do this. It's not what the people of this country want, the government will be told, loud & clear.

Don’t let the government turn universal freedoms into privileges for a chosen few

Call on the Justice Secretary Liz Truss to save the Human Rights Act

Please sign the petition

savetheact.uk/

idsisatwat www.the3million.org.uk might help.

Billben have you tested whether your job has enough hours to be considered work? I only ask because the hours requirement isn't in EU law. The Home Office have tried to add on bits and bobs to water EU law down a bit over the past few years, but it's of dubious legality. You may want to think about whether to apply for a registration certificate now and, if refused, whether to appeal it.

We voted to leave the EU, not break off all ties with other EU countries. One of the first things I hope is agreed after article 50m is triggered is that those here can remain, and those in other EU countries who are British likewise.

You really only care about the British 'abroad' in 'EU' countries. You couldn't give a shit about anyone else. I personally hope the British abroad in EU countries are treated with the same contempt that this Government and those who voted Brexit treat those EU foreigners.

"That's not what we voted for"

Ftfo. Just that. Ftfo.

What the 'we' did vote was a blanket YES to whatever OUT meant. There were no details, plans or anything apart from the £350m/week lie.

And that same idiotic "we" was outraged and shouting from the rooftops about the disgusting challenge on parliamentary involvement on the terms of out. All Gina is trying to do is to get some safeguards and open dealings, but that's not what 'we' voted for.

Your "we" gave a blank cheque for a bunch of grabby, self promoting liars, but it's ok, cos you didn't vote for that bit of fascism, or this bit of rascism.

Turkeys voting for fucking Christmas.

It actually enrages me this crap and nonsense about 'I voted for leave and this isn't what I wanted.'

You know what Brexiters? GET OVER IT!

Immigration was a key issue for many Leave voters. They can't now turn round and say "oh but not YOU" now they see what they voted for in effect.

You will be able to distinguish Brexiters at the airports in Europe. They will be those moaning (Bremoaners?) about having to stand in the queues with the bloody riff raff.

idsisatwat
There are a couple of good FB groups with lots of help from lawyers, if you are on FB. Maybe they could help answer your parent's questions. Or there is immigrationforums.com

'blank cheque' it's a powerful vote, but it's an advisory referendum. It has no legal status.
This country is a parliamentary democracy. Whatever the deal is will probably go to parliament to be voted on. So leavers and remainers who don't like the way this is going, can lobby their MPs on the way this is being handled. And the latest Brexit committee report (yesterday) from a bunch of MPs including leaver Gove, has backed this up:
house of commons vote
need for EU nationals to have their residency affirmed.
I sense that MPs know that a lot of people are unhappy with the way EU citizen status is being handled and pressure form angry constituents is having an effect.

Immigration was a key issue for many Leave voters.

harderandharder2breathe

Make no mistake

Immigration was the key issue

I realise I'm still very angry about the result this vote. How could people not see the consequences is beyond me.

Immigration was the key issue

Of course it was.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/13/investigation-after-third-death-in-uk-immigration-detention-centre
In Britain in 2017.

Surely it makes sense that EU nationals in the UK should only have the right to stay after we leave the EU if UK nationals living in the EU also have the right to stay in those countries? Compromise is about give and take. The government have already said that they want this to happen, and the EU could announce their commitment right now and instantly settle the concerns of millions of people!

I think that certain Remainiacs are looking to kick to government even when it is blatantly the EU who are causing the situation here. The UK are ready to make the commitment, people should be lobbying the EU to do the same.

I voted leave, and I am happy to stand up and say I did. There were lots of reasons why, and supporting controlled immigration was definitely one of them. I class myself as well educated, and took time to research the issues prior to the vote. And I chose to vote to leave, which of course is my democratic right to do so. Someone upthread said that 'brexiteers should get over it', but I can't really see any brexiteers frothing at the mouth like Remainers are. So I would suggest Remainers need to get over it and move on. Getting so stressed and worked up about the situation nearly 8 months after the vote is a waste of energy, which could be put to better use contributing to the best way we can make Brexit work for as many people as possible. The Guardian clearly have their own agenda printing this story, as I think most people are intelligent enough to see that this woman and her family will definitely not be leaving the UK; just a lot of irrelevant scaremongering.

tram
I will say it again.
In eu countries, even if the eu and the uk end up having very harsh at 'words', they will NOT split families.
So a Brit married to an eu crizen there will NOT have to go back to the UK because the law says it's OK for them to stay, just like it is for any other non eu citizen.
Unlike the uk who will VERY HAPPILY, and is already doing so, break that family apart and send that person back to their original country.

There is give and take there. Brits in the EU will ALWAYS be in a better position than eu citizen in the UK because of that.

Saying 'I'm happy for them to stay if Brits can stay in the eu' doesn't make sense because the rules that already exist are so different.

Live could please explain to m BRITISH husband why it's ok to destroy his family and why it's OK to leave his BRITISH children wo a mother?
That's a very serious question. These are people who are British and who will be EXTREMELY negatively affected by this decision.
Can you explain that them? Can you explain to my children that it's normal for them to be separated from their mum? That it's for 'for the good of the country and everyone will be much better like this.' EVen them....

So tell me, what would you tell them?

Thanks for that heartening advice, livelovebehappy.

I'm sure Jet Cooper, Maria Luisa Llorente, Wolpertinger's mother, Billben, Purplebluebird, idisatwat, and all others affected by the 2015 changes to the residency regulations will be relieved to hear you've declared the amended rules to be no big deal.

Please notify Robert Goodwill that the letters he sent Jet Cooper, advising that she may not be eligible to stay in the UK, were sent in error. I'm sure he's mortified.

Everyone knows that naice people do not get fucked over or messed around by immigration regulations. That could never happen. Families are never split up. The structure of residency regulation and legal rights to remain is not dauntingly complex, difficult to interpret, or changeable. People don't get caught up in illogical, unjust situations and find there's almost no recourse; they don't waste money on lawyers or solicit help from their MPs or contact the media, unless they're just a bit bored. Entire demographics of blameless people would never wait in limbo while their rights get used as a political football.

Please book your spot on Newsnight to declare that the residency legislation changes, combined with Brexit, will not disproportionately penalise women, who are statistically more likely to miss employment requirements due to being SAHPs, part-time workers or carers.

While you're there, please announce that all employed EU citizens in the UK have nothing to fear from Brexit; just because the government have a clear record of quietly changing rules and effectively introducing post-dated requirements, doesn't mean EU citizens should worry about the stability of their position here. In fact, everyone should chill the fuck out and move on!

Upthread, you bet your house that Jet Cooper would not be asked to leave the country. Would you like to make that official?

We would all feel so much more confident in your words.

I'm trying to complete the online PR application right now. My EU passport doesn't have all the info they want, which is unhelpful.

I've been here for 10 years, am married to a Brit and we have three tiny children (4, 2 and 8 months). I worked for the first 6 years and have been a SAHM since the eldest was born.

This state of limbo is deeply unpleasant.

The Guardian clearly have their own agenda printing this story, as I think most people are intelligent enough to see that this woman and her family will definitely not be leaving the UK; just a lot of irrelevant scaremongering.

Your own agenda shines through in this post.

As it happens, I agree that we're more likely than not to come up with some kind of compromise option type thing for Ms Cooper et al. But there isn't any certainty over that at all. Not a bit. The reality, as those of us who work in this field know, is that the Home Office have been trying their best to tighten things up for EU nationals and their families for a while now. Leniency would go against the trend. People aren't being unreasonable when they point out that there are thousands of people in situations like those in the OP, who are left in limbo. It's perfectly understandable that they feel the need for a bit more than your best guesses when it comes to, you know, THEIR ACTUAL FUTURES. Being able to stay in the country you call home with your family is something worth getting 'stressed' about!

And let's not forget the role of public influence here. If there are exceptions made for Ms Cooper and people in her position (and be in no doubt, current EU law doesn't cover them) then publicity over their cases, demonstrations of support, outcries will all help. That is, people not getting over it.

If we want to make Brexit work for families like hers, and I think all but a few very hardliners feel the Jet Coopers of the world should be able to stay, actually we should be doing the opposite of what you suggest. We should be making as much fuss as possible. This is an area where Remainers and many Leavers have common ground: thus, you whining about Remainiacs is inappropriate and unconstructive. Practice what you preach.

Oh I see that the Brexitmaniacs have come out and have told us not to stress about it or worry our little heads about such frivolities. It will be all okay because the right people will remain. You couldn't make this shit up.

In other news, a honey trap is set up in a Russian hotel and the author of many spy books can't believe this is still going on.

Yep, we should all just shut up and move on. Fuck whether people's families can stay together, stop worrying and chill the fuck out

tramstray

The nergotiastion period has not yet started. It starts once the UK has given notice. It hasn't done that yet. It is not anyone else's responsibility that the UK has not yet given notice.

I think you know that, really.

You also know that Theresa has said she will not declare UK's position in advance.

I find it chillingly disturbing that although article 50 hasn't yet been triggered, and we still await a supreme court decision on whether this should go to Parliament, forms are being sent out to EU citizens living in this country, which, can I remind everyone, is still part of the EU. The 1930s spring to mind.

Elendon

Vote in a different government

The 1930s spring to mind.
There are similarities. Hitler won with a tiny majority. The opposition was disorganised. Many Jews who had lived in Germany for generations couldn't believe their neighbours would collude with or ignore the expulsions. Straight out of their houses, had to leave everything. It made 'economic' sense to expel Jewry.
National 'loyalty' supersedes humanity at a cost.
And this thread has taught me a lot about how this is affecting wives, husbands, grandparents and most cruelly, children. Thanks to all who've told their stories.