Mother upsets daughter changing for swimming

[Twig45]

AIBU please tell me if I am but at swimming lessons with 2 of my ds in woman's changing rooms which has lots of cubicles. One mother is completely starkers at the lockers ( she is big lady so taking up a lot of room) she is getting dressed and shouting at her daughter who is over the other side with her back turned. Daughter is about 10 and is shouting mum you are so embarrassing there is loads of cubicles and everyone is staring. Mum is shouting it is you making everyone stare with your constant whining about everything. Everyone is staring because of the noise and because she is completely starkers and not even starting to get dressed AIBU to think this poor daughter was absolutely embarrassed and humiliated.

How come the cubicles are so small that you can't change comfortably in them? I have used a couple of council run pools in my area and the individual cubicle are easily large enough to get changed in comfortably. They aren't dark or claustrophobic either.

The changing area at my gym is mostly communal, with just a couple of cubicles. I'm not really a fan of communal changing because I don't feel comfortable getting my kit off in front of strangers, but I change quickly and just get on with it.

I'm surprised that so few of you understand how easily 10 year old girls get embarrassed by their parents though.

Depends.

Where I used to train (and instruct and coach. Currently nearly no more training for me, unfortunately) there are staff changing rooms. They are gender segregated, but there's just this one room with benches right next to the room with communal (gender segregated) showers. Taking your clothes in there or the towel would make them go damp.

There are, btw, shower cubicles, but there aren't that many and the communal shower is much nicer, more convenient and I personally have no problem with nudity.

Plus, if you're in the changing room with somebody else they can help you retape something etc.

If the 10yo didn't want attention drawn to her naked mother, how about not shouting it aloud? Just a thought...

Human body is nothing to be ashamed of, it's a changing room for goodness sake most countries wouldn't bat an eyelid nakedness seems to be very shameful in the uk , yet we have high rates of teen pregnancy etc, don't make the human body something to be ashamed of.

I'm totally a naked person and foster a 'it's only a body' type attitude with my children (who are 8 and 5 and all boys). However, if they started expressing discomfort and embarrassment I would cover up. Other thread similar to this about parents being nude in the home seem to come down to if the kid is embarrassed, then don't do it. I'm surprised at the responses here tbh.

I would have been mortified by this at the age of ten or so. Luckily my mum tried to minimise this by not explicitly doing stuff to embarrass me.

You lost me at "she is big lady so taking up a lot of room) "

felicia

Why? I hated it when my mother danced on weddings and family parties etc.

So what? Should she have stopped doing something that was, objectively speaking, totally acceptable?

No. But then a child approaching puberty and becoming more aware of their bodies and how they are changing is doubtless going to feel self conscious. Not the same as being embarrassed because it's practically law to be embarrassed by everything your parent does!

Agreed. It's not to do with shame but giving people a choice. I'm not ashamed of Rothko paintings but I don't want to look at them...
If I go to a gallery, I'll avoid the rooms with Rothko's in because I'd rather not see them.

You don't need to be ashamed of your body. But not giving people a choice to see it or not is what flashers do. Standing out of the way and getting dressed efficiently or going in a cubicle vs standing in front of lockers or in the middle of the room... It's not a lack of shame, it's a lack of respect for others boundaries. I draw the line at looking at nude strangers.

felicia

Self conscious, yes. Of their own body. Which is why nobody forced the child to change in the room with other strangers, right?

rixera

Yes, I'm not talking about purposely attracting attention either. But from the sound of it the screaming was what attracted the attention. So, the issue is getting changed and having a row whilst doing it. Not the fact that the mother was nak d because she was changing.

As for giving people the choice to see naked bodies...
Well, in a room with some cubicles and an open changing area one should imo expect to see naked bodies.

I don't see how getting changed in a designated changing area can be compared to flashing somebody.

Ah yes, pre-adolescents, known to be completely rational about their feelings.

FWIW when I was a child I probably saw a fully naked body in a changing room once or twice. Most people would keep a towel round them and be more modest. I couldn't give a shit nowadays (and actually think that's kind of weird) but I don't think a changing room is the place to be teaching your kid a lesson about how bodies are normal, all bodies are fine etc.

Idk.

Where I grew up it was normal to be naked in changing rooms and shower etc,

Especially after training.

And in school it was actually mandatory after sport.

No, not rational. But that's exactly why I think the mother shouldn't have changed her behaviour to bend to the completely irrational whims of a kid.

but I don't think a changing room is the place to be teaching your kid a lesson about how bodies are normal, all bodies are fine etc

Why not? Seems like the most obvious place to teach that as its the one place where your child is most likely to encounter undressed bodies of various shapes and sizes. You don't actually have to actively teach them, they will learn it just by seeing the people and seeing your reaction to them (e.g. if you pull a face, or cringe, or mutter something it'll teach a negative view but if you show no signs of discomfort or disgust then it'll teach a more positive view)

Well put Rixera

I think what might help is if we acknowledge there is a sort of 'line' or continuum between - at one end - people never being able to get their body out in front of anyone, and people who bound about all over the place in the nude. As with all things most people are somewhere between the extremes, but at different points on that line.

No, in a communal changing room you don't need to be trying to get dressed entirely under your towel, but then, I think most people (in the UK anyway) expect a bit of modesty, and, once you've dried yourself it is fairly normal to put your underwear at least on before you start parading about, or moving across the room to start emptying your locker / drying your hair / anything else you want to do.

Natsku- because it seems a bit unnecessary to me that's all. Making a point for the sake of it, especially with the shouting, when you could just roll your eyes, put your knickers on and then on the way home have a conversation about how bodies are just bodies and nothing to be ashamed of, and that she needs to relax when in a changing room as that's probably the one place when you'll totally innocently see naked people other than family!

I don't think anybody thinks the shouting was a good idea.

Although... I mean, shouting can mean many things. what DH calls shouting is kind of how my mother and her family talk when we have lively conversations. He thought we were arguing when he first met them

So, maybe the version from the OP of shouting was just them having a spirited disagreement?

Shouting was not a good idea, but getting changed in the way she felt comfortable was a good idea.

I just want to state a few things.

Modesty is a behaviour, not a state of dress. You can be fully clothed and behaving immodestly (eg posing suggestively), or you could be totally nude and be acting modestly (eg simply reading a book).

Temperature regulation is actually easier when you are nude. So walking to/from the shower nude you may not feel the cold, but wrapped in a towel your arms and legs may feel chilly. It's also easier to dry off and get changed quickly when you are nude, than attempting to do the 'towel dance'.

Most people who are nude or comfortable with nudity are not exhibitionists. I'd argue there are more clothed exhibitionists that are desperate for attention than nude ones.

Someone mentioned flashing. Flashing is a sexually aggressive behaviour, used to alarm or harass other people. Simple nudity is non-sexual. Nudity is not illegal in public (in the UK - though I concede it is not commonly expected), so certainly shouldn't be a cause for concern in a changing room, where imo it should be expected.

Modesty is a behaviour, not a state of dress Thank you for saying that. I absolutely hate it when people refer to not wanting to be naked as 'being modest' or 'having a sense of modesty', really irritates me.

Well, I'm not modest and don't see the point of it (although I do tend to dress conservatively, especially when working).

But I agree, you can wear a veil in church and still behave immodestly. Whereas a nude person (especially in a place where nudity is functional or even the norm) may be modest.

"Temperature regulation is actually easier when you are nude. So walking to/from the shower nude you may not feel the cold, but wrapped in a towel your arms and legs may feel chilly. "

I call bullshit on that. You might as well say wearing clothes makes your hands cold.

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/modesty

Look at definition no.3 of modesty.

Look at definition no.3 of modesty

There's nothing improper or indecent about being undressed in a changing room though.

Still don't think it should have that definition at all anyway but because people use it that way it becomes that, makes me roll my eyes at people who say things like that.

Yes.... what about definition 3?
'Modesty forbid her from entering a church without a veil.'

So? Are you going to say that entering a church without a veil makes you immodest?

Or not wearing some sort of head covering everyday?

No.
modesty is such a weird concept anyway. Your modesty may be incredibly indecent to somebody else...

and it seems like it's primarily a way to police female bodies, rights and behaviour

Absolutely agreed Claryl it seems modest is mostly concerned with the female body.