Is it unreasonable for a DP to need separate holidays and home?

[user1471551792]

Hi all, this is my first post. Longtime lurker.

I've been with my DP for 13 months. He lives up north about 250 miles away and we see each other for two or three days about twice a month. Either at his or mine. I have children and he doesn't. I love him very much and it's reciprocal. Our plan is for him to move here and he is job searching. He has also said on numerous occasions that he wants to marry me. He's a decade older than me. He earns a significantly higher salary. He owns his home and I rent. I don't want to move to him as it would drastically reduce my DC's contact with their father, with whom we all have a good relationship.

So, the AIBU. In the short term it is that he has told me this week that he wants to go away for a week, on his own, at Easter for some peace and relaxation. In the long term it is that when he moves here he wants to have his own place even if we marry. That is he has said he will always need his own space. He is adamant that this is not because of the children, but because he would need to step into his ordered life from time to time, for space.

I genuinely don't know if this is unreasonable. It feels...unusual? Odd? And also sort of disconnected. I can't afford to pay for a holiday, at least not equitably. In practical terms I also can't afford to continue paying my rent if we marry, as I will lose tax credits and housing benefit. I work btw. And it just feels "off" to be renting out his house, while we rent one each. It's not exactly the happy ever after...

I'd really welcome opinions. Thanks.

OP please be careful.
I don't have a problem with the need for space thing in principle if you can afford it between you, which it sounds like you can't.
However I'm worried that he sounds very critical of you (the way I manage my life is better than yours, I don't care that you work full time with two young children, you should still have a completely immaculate house at all times...).
Do not let the argument of 'he's giving up everything to move nearer' distract you - if you're not careful it sounds like he will make you feel so guilty about the upheaval to his life that you will agree to anything not to seem ungrateful.
I also think it is quite weird not to want to share financially, at least to some extent, with a partner you love, especially when that partner is on a much lower income. If I was in that position I hope I'd want to at least take my partner on a holiday they wouldn't normally be able to afford and spoil them a bit. Rather than being very strictly 50:50 about everything. I'm sure it's possibly to share some finances without making everything completely joint.
I am also concerned that he didn't seem at all worried or sympathetic that his plan involved you being unable to afford to live in your house! 'Let's wait and see' doesn't sound to me like a suitably sympathetic response to a pretty major concern.
I don't understand why you think you're controlling? I am worried about a controlling element in this relationship but not from you!
Please think carefully about the way he is behaving towards you - obviously I've never met him but he isn't coming across as a loving and respectful partner to me.

I can see his point prior to marriage to move closer and spend a lot more time with you. This is a big change for him which needs to be at least acknowledged. He may change his point of view of his living arrangements after being more exposed to you on a regular basis. He may even see the appeal in a family holiday as well as taking his own.

But you need to talk about what happens after marriage because it will become very problematic for you financially with changes to how income is assessed and you will incur extra costs when he is staying with you that he needs to cover. He also needs to consider what he finds acceptable to change as marriage isnt like a contract with rest clauses in it. He needs to decide if the sacrifices he needs to make to be with you properly are the ones he wants to make. I totally get where he is coming from and I totally get your concerns so communication will be important - not after the fact but now.

Don't marry, at least not now. No it is not okay to live with you, and have another house that he can go and stay in. What would make much more sense is for him to move down, get his own place, and for you to see each other, but not live together. It is far too early in this relationship to marry.

It's easy for him to say "Let's not worry about it, wait and see" because it isn't going to affect him, is it!! How very fucking patronising. You have a very valid concern, and he's dismissing it because it isn't his problem.

Don't marry him ANYWAY. AT ALL. Never mind the housing situation.

Don't let him move in with you. If he wants to move closer to you, fine, but keep the relationship casual and don't lose any money for you and your kids.
I can't see how children will fit into his ordered life.

If I were in your situation, marriage would be absolutely out of the question. Never, ever put yourself in a situation where you are at a financial disadvantage. Never. In your case you have everything to lose and nothing, really, to gain. He loses nothing and gains everything. I would never marry or combine finances in any way with someone who had so little concern for my financial well being. Don't do it. Don't marry him.

As far as the separate homes/holidays, I really don't have a problem with that. I've been married to my lovely DH for almost 30 years. We share a home, our finances, and have raised our family. We take joint and separate holidays. BUT if I were to ever become single I would never marry again, would never live with anyone again, and would never ever combine finances. Not because life hasn't been wonderful, but because it's a lot of work and at this stage in my life, I wouldn't want the hassle that goes with living with another person. Maybe your boyfriend feels the same way?

You say he feels your domestic lifestyles don't 'mesh'. Do you mean he's an organized 'neat freak' and you're more 'laissez faire' on the domestic front? TBH, those two approaches really don't work well together and are usually the cause for a lot of friction.

If I were you, I'd tell him that marriage is off the table. If he wants to maintain his own establishment, that's fine. But if he does so and plans to spend 'every night' (and I assume also eat meals, take showers, do laundry) then he will need to contribute to the costs of running of your household, too as there will be increased food and utilities costs. Especially if you stand to lose benefits because of him.

Massive red flag to me, OP. I have no problem with a period of adjustment but do it before you marry this man. By the time you make the commitment of marriage, he shouldn't be keeping his bolt hole for when the going gets tough.

You need a better user name, I'm not calling you 'User' - so it'll have to be Lovely for now 💐 Mine was a joke name change for another thread, but as I used it on here, I'll stick to it for now 😊 There is NOT a bunny onesie on order, I'd look like something out of Fantasia! 😁

Lovely. Please listen to what he's telling you. I know you don't want to hear it, but you need to. He's telling you that he can't live the way you live 'more relaxed' & sees your way as 'inferior' & his as 'superior' - he needs to 'escape from YOU You're not 'mindful' WTAF 😢

Of course we all have friends who live differently to us and so I understand his POV re difference in the way you live. I love my friends, but I couldn't live with them - that's fine, they're friends. You cannot MARRY someone under those circumstances. If he doesn't love who you are, what is the point?

Secondly 'I have told you...'

I have said to you that I need to have my own space when I move up. I need to be able to step into my ordered world sometimes. And if you can't accept that then we have a problem. I have tried to see what it would be like not to do that and it just doesn't sit right with me. I told you that I want to be with you and I do. But we have differing sensibilities about some aspects of living and I need to be able to embrace mine at times

He is telling you how it's going to be & you'd better comply because he has spoken. This won't be the first time he's done this and it certainly will not be the last.

Do you want to live like that? Is your self esteem so low that sounds even vaguely acceptable? I hope not :(

Holidays. He's escaping already - he could spend Easter with you, you don't get much time together, but he's not. He's going on holiday without you. He wants peace & relaxation, he's saying he can't get that with you 😢

I don't know what's happened in your past, what sort of man your ex is, but for you to find this treatment of you acceptable, it can't have been too good.

You need to call it a day. He will make you feel inferior & utterly miserable. This is not a 'see how it goes' situation. He is telling you how it's going to be and it's going to be fecking miserable.

Be strong, don't settle for this bloody awful man & relationship, you deserve a LOT more than this 💐

It might just be a bit of a commitment phobia thing, that will improve with time. When I first moved in with my now husband, I insisted on having my 'own bedroom' where all my clothes were kept, and I had it as I wanted it. Obviously, I'd sleep in 'his room' but I wanted to officially have my own space. I'd never lived with anyone before. If I could have afforded it, I would have kept my own flat for at least another 6 months, although the reality would have been us living together still.

When we moved into another house, I had a study instead, but my clothes etc were in our room, and thats the way its stayed. We are very happily married.

I don't see his arrangement being healthy in the long term, but he's saying it based on how he feels now. It may well be that in a year or two, he wants to move in together properly, and that its not an issue any more.

Given how little time you've spent together so far, I'd be inclined to just see how it goes. I wouldn't marry him and lose benefits etc because of it, and if you're on benefits you've got to be very careful anyway, that you don't count as living together, but its still very early days.

I think the thing about holidays is that he can easily afford them and I can't at all. So it feels like he will go because he can and we won't have them. Now that feels unreasonable of me because it's his money and it intuitively feels controlling on my part. But something niggles about it. And it really isn't because I'm after his money or what that could bring.

It niggles because it's grim, OP. He is basically saying he will deign to marry you but not to contribute to supporting you, or making your life better in any way other than via the pleasure of his company. That is not a marriage. It is barely a serious relationship. There is a very good reason why marriage vows include 'all that I have, I share with you' - because that is how you treat a person you love.

He says it is absolutely not the kids, but me. That I'm not as mindful as he is. The way I do the washing up, laundry etc. He finds me chaotic and sees himself as ordered

This makes me fume! I bet your dishes and your laundry are perfectly clean, regardless of how they are washed. Patronising git.

And yes, I think he is ringfencing his house too.

"We are going to discuss at the weekend. He really would be chucking up everything. Home, friends, job...It will be a huge change. I suppose I worry that asking for even more seems a step too far or churlish under the circumstances."
So basically, he has got you already feeling under an obligation to capitulate?

How about buying a house with a man cave. A house with a decent sized garden that could hold a garden room. This could be his retreat. You get the best of both worlds. Living together and he has his own space too.
It sounds like he's nervous of giving up his own space which he's used to having. It may be a gut reaction. Which is understandable.

This isn't any good. He wants two lives effectively. One happy family life where presumably you pick up most of the domestic chores (because let's face it, that is still how things shake out in most homes), and one happy single life with his own space, his own free time and his own holidays. I'm an aspie, I love to spend a lot of time alone - so I wouldn't get involved with someone who was not an aspie and who wanted the more usual kind of relationship.

His great plan seems to be all about him. Where does he consider you? And your children who will also be part of the equation? "We'll work something out" about your rent, that is way too vague an answer when you need to keep a roof over your kid's heads. You need to thrash all this out now before he moves. At the very least I think you should put plans for further commitment on hold for another year, keep things as they are.

I believe I have the solution.

Your joint aspiration, if you marry, should be that you (mostly he but that's the nature of marriage) buy a big family house for the family, plus a little bedsit / flat bolt hole, if a shed / study / attic really won't suffice.

You will need some understanding and agreement about when retreating to the bolt hole is needed and appropriate e.g. Not to skive out of doing the washing up, or to storm out of an argument but perhaps, to go for a couple of days here and there, mutually planned and agreed so as not to cause domestic problems. E.g. If you've planned to go out, with him staying in with the kids, you need to have confidence he'll stick with that a arrangement (however difficult the DCs are being that day, or chaotic the house).

I think if he wants to move up and rent, to try out being your BF at closer quarters, fine, that's all on him, he's taking the risks job-wise but he's still got a house to go back to if it doesn't work out.

But, I don't think you should agree to a longer-term aspiration of separate living, with you running the family home. That's neither one thing nor the other and, even if he pays board, seems likely to add to your domestic burden, to his benefit.

I can see the benefits of his having separate living space - for your DCs. If he doesn't want to be a live-in 'dad' figure and might not blend well into your family, having him as your semi-detached partner, even husband but not 'dad' could work. That's where pooling your resources and buying a family home comes in.

Otherwise he's just your gentleman caller. They don't stay every night. (And if he wishes to, wouldn't another bathroom be handy? It's daily pressures like sharing bathrooms that are family life. He becomes part of it, or he doesn't).

I'd suggest setting a review date for the short-term trial, after which longer term changes will be made, or, it's over. Be clear from the outset about what sort of longer-term arrangements would be acceptable to you, so he cannot possibly claim you misled him when he moved.

Oh also, really important. This idea that he's giving so much up to be with you... Well, he'd be taking a risk, yes. But a risk with the potential for great benefit to him. A lovely girlfriend / partner maybe even a marriage.

You MUST factor yourself into that equation as a positive.

He's not giving things up in order to be in a worse position, or even a neutral one. If that's the result he'll go back. He's giving up some things, some security for something lovely in the short term that could turn into something wonderful. You are, for him, that something lovely or wonderful, an asset.

And... He's not doing it for your benefit. He's doing it for his. He's made that and his inclination towards valuing his interests very highly, very clear. This is not a man who would move 'for your sake' if he didn't really want to himself.

So, do not think, or allow him to suggest, that he's giving things up 'for you', he isn't. You're not a burden, not a drain on his life - or you wouldn't be in it. You're an asset.

Good advice there ^^

From my pov, he is your boyfriend. It would be wise if he moves.down that he keeps his home and rents near. However, if in the future you decide the relationship works and you want to marry then it should be under the terms of shared family home, shared assets.

Other wise yes, you are getting the shit end of the deal in my view.

A separate space away from the bustle and noise of family life? Who wouldn't honestly want that at times?

I don't think 12 months is long enough for you each to make this commitment- he is losing his support network to move to you. That's hard.

He said he would spend every night at mine

Cheeky fucker! That's NOT how it works and he knows it!

Given the extra info, my feeling is that he's behaving in a controlling manner.
He wants you but also wants to keep his bachelor pad as an escape for whenever being around you and your kids gets too 'chaotic' for him....or when you have an argument...
I guess he's not keen on you or the kids going over there and hanging out/sleeping over and using it like a second home?

Does he think having his bachelor pad is a valid reason for not being able to afford to pay for you or the kids to holiday with him?
Will he still pay 50% towards costs based on him sleeping at yours every night?
Is he planning on sharing his wage with you given that you will lose some benefits - single person discount on council tax for example?

I'm getting the feeling he's being sly and controlling all outcomes.
He gets the benefits of a live-in-relationship - sex/meals/wifework.
He also gets He also gets to make sure that he will still be able to enjoy the benefits of a live-separate-relationship.

Discuss with him the financial implications of being together/married.
I think that will show you whether this is a good/workable plan for you and your relationship.

found these that give a clearer insight about living separately

family-studies.org/why-some-older-couples-prefer-living-apart/

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/relationship-advice-and-romance/10592950/Why-happily-married-couples-are-choosing-to-live-apart.html

www.bbc.com/capital/story/20150807-your-house-or-mine

Have you met his friends and family? Do you spend much time at his place? Is he readily available to speak via phone etc?

I only ask because it sounds to me as though you are either the OW, or he has an OW.

The holiday is odd - why does he need to go away for 'peace' if he lives alone? He's basically saying that he wants to go away somewhere because it would be nice, but he doesn't want you to come. It just doesn't really add up.

I enjoy my own space and company and like to be independent, but I consider being with my DP to be as relaxing as being by myself. If I preferred my own company to that of my DP it would seem to make more sense for me to be single.

OP, From what you have been posting, this person could be my own brother. I know it isn't, but from the attitude, the bluntness, the need to escape to his ordered life etc, etc. And no, my brother is NOT a bad, unloveable person - he has ASPERGERS SYNDROME!!! He is highly intelligent & funny but, his brutal honesty can cause offence as do his choice of words sometimes. His AS brings with it many rituals, OCD, hoarding, panic attacks etc. He would not be able to live with another person purely because he believes, in his mind, that noone can clean to his standard & he needs his own space, alone, with all his familiar stuff around him. It's a crippling disability for him. Sorry, but everything you have posted and quoted, the likeness to my brother is uncanny.

Some good advice from lottie

I don't have any problem seeing why some couples might want sperate houses, but that's generally one house each, not one house that is his and hers (so he gets to dictate to op when he stays), and one house that is his alone. There is nothing fair or reasonable about what he is suggesting.

If anything happened to my husband I'm not sure I'd want to live with someone again. My husband and I have occasional holidays separately (he did an intensive cycling week i went to Paris with my dad).
To me him getting a house near you and seeing how things go is fine. You can share finances without living together. There is no point being married if finances aren't shared and separate houses though.

He sees himself as ordered and you as chaotic? Big red flag there.

He said he would spend every night at mine and the other place would house his stuff etc and he could go to for space. So he wants to cocklodge at yours and you wouldn't be entitled to benefits anymore, but he wouldn't contribute any money to your household? And he'd have a separate place to go to any moment he wanted out, for the night or permanently? While you'd be stuck as fucking buggery struggling to pay the rent on the house you're both living in while he contributes nothing except his penis? Tell him to fuck off.