To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

[Babieseverywhere]

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

I don't want my daughter sharing a bedroom with a boy either @worraliberty.

And while trans people are recognised as a third sex, they're separated, not bunged in with the girls.

I'm not going to 'help' a child by telling them their body is 'wrong'. It's appalling behaviour. I would be infertile with no tits if I'd been 20-30 years younger than I am. That terrifies me. When I see detransitioned women living with the consequences of the helpful adults around them who told them they were wrong I can't believe that people are still peddling this shit to gnc children. It's ok to be lesbian or gay or gnc. You do not have to change your body to make conservative adults more comfortable. Why the hell aren't people 'helping' gnc children by telling the there is more than one way to be a boy or be a girl rather than telling them if they like 'girl things' then the have to make sure their body matches?

@DailyFail1 - please do link to the studies you quote

I can't get my head around the OP wanting her DD to experience all female activities, but not wanting to have a child with a penis there acting in a female way, because she doesn't believe in gender.

If you don't believe in gender then why is an all female group even a thing in your world?

And everyone then told you, sorry, you are defined by your genitalia

Not determined by genitalia, determined by chromosomes. Genitals are an expression of these chromosomes.

And concerns aren't around sexuality, they are around sex. Lesbians in female changing rooms is fine, men isn't.

If you were the Girl Guides, what policy would you have towards trans girls?

OP where do you stand on homosexuals, lesbians, trans etc. using ablution / toilet facilities or swimming baths changing rooms etc?

And everyone then told you, sorry, you are defined by your genitalia.

You mean like women have for the whole of history, JagerPlease?

Do people have the same concerns about gay children associating freely with their children?

No, because unlike a lot of mainstream trans activism, I'm not a homophobe.

Morphene I imagine the OP believes in biological sex, sex-based oppression and socialisation based on biological sex. Happy to be corrected though.

"Biologically male/female" is meaningless. There are more than two naturally occurring arrangements of genitalia and reproductive organs, more than two naturally occuring configurations of chromosomes, more than two naturally occuring balances of sex hormones.

I'm not a woman because I've got a vagina, or because of my chromosomes (I don't even know whether I've got XX chromosomes, nobody's ever checked), or because of the balance of oestrogen/testosterone in my body. I'm a woman just because and exactly because I feel like a woman. The same thing is true for trans women, who are no less women than I am.

Morphene: Good point, well made!

What's "acting in a female way", *Morphene^?

Imagine one day that you woke up and your vagina had been replaced by a penis and your breasts were gone. You were still the same person mentally, but physically appeared male. And everyone then told you, sorry, you are defined by your genitalia. This is how a trans woman feels every day.

I think the award for the worst analogy ever goes to Jager. Trans people have not woken up one day with a different physical body all of a sudden. Gender is a social construct, they are still raised, treated and socialised as their atlases for a great deal of their lives, even trans children. And many do choose to change their bodies in an extreme way, but around 80% never do

Doesn't it make more sense to say everyone who wants to play fight and run around pretending to be superheroes over in group A, everyone who wants to sit around and debate who is best friends with who this week over here in group 1.

You get some males and some females in each but you have grouped by interest and outlook in life....not by genitals....which SHOULD be totally irrelevant for 10 yo....

Trans rights trampling over women's rights. Again.

No, that will be the parents trampling over their daughter's rights, due to parental choice

I'm not one to usually disagree with you Worra but this response is just skirting around and trying to deflect from a perfectly valid statement.

Also, what is this bollocks about 'my DD might be on her period having to deal with all that in front of a boy'?

I swear, whenever these trans bashing bullshit threads come up people start inventing these scenarios. I've never taken a tampon in or out in front of anyone, male or female, or given any one a front row seat to my vagina. Having a period means you deal with it in the privacy of a toilet cubicle or may be ask a friend or group leader if they have sanitary protection. How is it messed up by having another girl there who was assigned male at birth?

The trans = violent sex pest link is also pretty disturbing and reminds me of the bad old days of the 80s and 90s when gay people were thought of as unsafe around children. It's pure bigotry and I wish MN would set up a topic just for this shit so the rest of us can avoid it.

God. Group 1 sounds shit.

Informing people about lesbians is also a ridiculous argument. Gender critical parents aren't concerned about assault, they are concerned about the implications of their children's privacy when having to share safe spaces with member states of the opposite sex. Sexual orientation has fuck all to do with it, you may as well say "would people be bothered with their children sharing with polar bears". So irrelevant. Like a PP said I'm confident a gay man wouldn't assault me but I wouldn't wanna share a changing room with him

Hear hear BraveDancing

If you were the Girl Guides, what policy would you have towards trans girls?

As the girl guides are a single sex organisation, I would politely pass them on to scouts or woodcraft folk which both accept both sexes and have very similar activities etc.

OP where do you stand on homosexuals, lesbians, trans etc

Homosexuals/lesbians are completely different from trans.

Homosexuality is a descriptor of what sex you are attracted to. Lesbians are women solely attracted to women.

Trans is nothing to do with sexuality it is to do with gender identity.

I am talking about young children. I wouldn't care if every brownies was lesbian and every cub was gay. This is nothing to do with sexual relationships.

This is to do with young girls right to play with other young girls, without a boy walking in and interfering.
Guides is a rare place where girls learn to complete challenges alone and in groups WITH OUT any boys mansplaining to them or taking over becoming the leader and ordering the girls around. Like the boys do in school and other mixed sex groups.

That is why I send my girls, to build confidence and good self esteem WITH OUT boys taking over and making everything about them.

Even this thread is proof that in any discussion the boy/male side is always taken as more important than the girl/female side.

Stop sidelining into the boy issue....talk about the girls and their rights !

So, BraveDancing, just to be clear: you'd also be totally OK with teenage boys sleeping in the same rooms/tents/whatever as teenage girls?

archery I mean acting in the way females are all but forced to act in order to gain the approval of our patriarchal society......

examples include:

a) prefacing every comment in a committee with 'sorry..can I just....'
b) Standing and sitting in closed minimising postures (hands together, knees together etc.)
c) wearing clothing designed to accentuate appearance (to men) and reduce actually physical aptitude.
d) finding consensus as a substitute for leadership that might scare people.
e) I could go on for ever but this list is making me too angry.

I didn't know Girl Guides was a single sex organisation. Do they get a doctor to inspect the children's genitals upon application, or is it done by a regular member of staff?

This thread has reminded me of that study which says that girls do better in all-girl schools but that boys do better in mixed-sex schools. (But it's always boys who matter.)