To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

[Babieseverywhere]

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

Not really sure what you're worried about happening here? Are you suggesting that a cunning young boy may claim to identify as female, change his appearance so as to pass as female to all unsuspecting other guides, while still actually identifying as male, so that he can watch some girls get changed?

It's basically the legal destruction of women or girl only spaces.
Privacy for girls is being treated as wholly worthless. For the first time ever I am glad my dd isn't involved with guides.

@HughJarss

1.I am afraid that my daughter (s) will have no opportunity to experience the joy and companionship, women gain by being in an women's only group.

1. I am afraid that a boy joining a group will make everything about him and his needs and the girls will be told to shut up or leave the group.

1. I am afraid my oldest daughter who is beginning puberty will be forced to undress and toilet whilst being on her period and having to deal with all the upset, pain and mess that naturally occurs anyway and have an additional level of upset to have this witnessed by a boy, who would never have to go through these difficulties.

1. I am afraid that a boy conforming to his definition of what a women is, will damage my daughters esteem.

As I am continually educating her and her siblings that what you wear, what you do, who you love is up to you and that gender is a load of bollocking.

Gender is a religion I do not believe in and I don't want my children forcing them into tiny 'gender' box's to fit into the world.

Plus another billion other reasons...I am afraid.

Scottishdiem it wouldn't necessarily have to be a 'sex pest' situation, teenagers are curious. Sharing a room with someone of the opposite sex is not something I'd be happy with allowing my teens to do.

countess I appreciate your concern for women's "worth" but where is the consideration for the worth of a trans child?

Some of the guidence is interesting.

YANBU OP I would be furious.

I also hate the "they don't care about your DD" attitude - even if they're not 'sex pests' as someone put, saying "I feel like a girl" won't suddenly make your 10yo daughter feel wholly 100% comfortable sharing a tent, being naked with or having a personal space shared with someone who is male. It's so conflicting to teach children about bodily privacy etc especially with regard to the opposite sex and then go against this because of another child's feelings. Not just go against his - but keep it from the child and make out they're a bigot if they're uncomfortable with it.

Boring.

Did you know, OP, that trans women are women, not men, and that trans girls are girls, not boys? Sorry if that blows your mind.

scottishdiem too many boys are "sex pests" - see, eg, this article. And since the available studies (although I believe on grown-ups) say that transwomen commit violent crimes at the same rate as men, it's reasonable to be cautious about trans girls sharing intimate space with girls, just as you would about other boys sharing intimate space with girls.

And even for all the kids that are perfectly respectful of the girls, it's difficult enough being a girl without having to, eg, change in front of someone with a penis, however nice they are.

Do you know, I would probably be a bit at this, but my dd would almost certainly think it was fab and be very welcoming. Which is probably much more important in the scheme of things.

BigBadWolves there needs to be a compromise that considers the needs of both. This policy is all about the needs of the trans kids with no regard whatsoever for the girls.
How did we get to the point where even wanting both sides to be considered is seen as hateful?

@Allthebestnamesareused

The lying bit is the below....
"It is not a requirement - or best practice - to tell parents that a trans person will be attending a residential event."

The article is for guide leaders not for parents of the children. I found the link online, I am not a leader...just a concerned parent.

Ps. I have two gnu children so I do have sympathy but I would never send my boy to the Guides.

Don't be bloody ridiculous OP

Not really sure what you're worried about happening here? Are you suggesting that a cunning young boy may claim to identify as female, change his appearance so as to pass as female to all unsuspecting other guides, while still actually identifying as male, so that he can watch some girls get changed

Presumably many parents of the guides will not believe in gender identity. Many parents are gender critical and therefore asking parents and children to in essence "pretend" to believe in gender is surely akin to religious dogma? You can believe whatever you like but you should surely not force me or my child to believe it too. To gender critical parents it will simply be seen as a boy being given access to girls space as many people, myself included do not believe you can change sex and do not believe in gender. #factsnotfeelz

Another reason why HQ should add a trans bashing topic.

You really should have made it clear in the thread title, OP. As it is, your chosen title makes no sense anyway.

Ah, I thought 'sleeping with' to mean having sex.....

I appreciate your concern for women's "worth" but where is the consideration for the worth of a trans child?

So its up to females to give up their privacy and safe space to make a male have self worth? It's beyond misogynistic.
Sometimes it's appropriate to have sex segragated spaces. There are many good reasons why brownies is one of them.

There was a thread a while ago about a woman who wanted to put her (non trans) boy into Brownies as he'd suit the activities.
Loads of Brownie leaders came in to say that for many years now the subject of allowing boys in has come up, and is always given a firm 'no' - one of the reasons being girls flourish better in female only groups as boys tend to take over. What makes people think this would be different with a trans 'girl'? They are still male. It's a real shame I have to say that Brownies now have this policy.

'my dd would almost certainly think it was fab and be very welcoming. Which is probably much more important in the scheme of things.'

Of course she would, because girls are socialised to put boys first. I don't think this is a good thing.

I agree that this is very tricky and no-one has all the answers to satisfy everyone, and in law is still an emerging and evolving area.

However, when you constantly refer to a transgendered person as "boy" with what to me comes across as (self-)righteous indignation it rather suggests to me that you have no intention of trying to understand.

alltouchedout so are you happy with, eg, teenage boys having unfettered access to teenage girls at night? NotAllBoys are going to assault girls, but some do, and the available evidence is that transwomen commit the same rate of violent crime as men.

(And in before "but some girls hurt other girls!" Well, yes they do, but they don't possess penises with which to rape.)

No, I think because she likes all people and is much more open minded than her old reactionary mother!

Did you know, OP, that trans women are women, not men, and that trans girls are girls, not boys? Sorry if that blows your mind.

This often comes up in these threads but I for one am yet to here what makes a 'girl' and 'boy' if it's not sex/biology? Never heard an explanation that doesn't perpetuate a sexist stereotype

They absolutely should not 'out' a child to other parents. Do you realise the consequences that would have?

My child, at my request, had their own separate space on school trips etc. Aside from the issue of privacy for other children, my child absolutely wouldn't want to be in a situation where their privacy would be compromised either.

If you know about a transgender child then you can make requests to provide privacy for your dd, if you don't know if there is a transgender child there then it's safe to assume that, if there are any, they want privacy and there are no concerns with regards to your dd because they have made their own separate arrangements.