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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

999 replies

Babieseverywhere · 12/01/2017 09:49

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

OP posts:
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5
JaxingJump · 12/01/2017 10:20

I'd be totally fine with this. OP, I simply can't agree with your stance on trans children. It hurts my soul to read how you view them if I'm honest but I know I can't change your mind about this.

JigglyTuff · 12/01/2017 10:21

Why do we bother separating girls and boys at all? If it doesn't matter what genitals they have?

This effectively also excludes Muslim girls because if there is a risk they will be sharing a room with a natal boy, they won't be able to go.

Trans rights trampling over women's rights. Again.

Strongmummy · 12/01/2017 10:22

Ffs!!! The trans child IS a girl. They were born in the wrong body. they are learning to live as girls and then women. Can we not help them? I think you've maybe strayed from the trans bashing feminist MN area haven't you. Yawn!

DixieNormas · 12/01/2017 10:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/01/2017 10:22

YANBU OP.

We have sex segregated spaces for many reasons. It is inappropriate for a male to be allowed entry to a female only space no matter how they identify.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 12/01/2017 10:23

NotAllBoys are going to assault girls, but some do, and the available evidence is that transwomen commit the same rate of violent crime as men.

YY Annie you also don't have to look far on MN to see stories about how teenage girls are objectified and harassed in secondary schools. Too many boys do have a sexist attitude towards girls and it would be nice if people actually took this seriously rather than dismissed it. Don't see why this would change because someone 'identifies as a girl', whatever that means

Kr1stina · 12/01/2017 10:24

Trans girls are not girls, they are trans girls. Sorry if that blows your mind borpborp

And girls are entitled to privacy in girl only spaces, like changing rooms. Just the same as boys.

It's nothing to do with sexual attraction or orientation . I don't want gay men in my changing room at the pool, even though they are not sexually attracted to women . It's about privacy .

And no, it's can't be that rare an issue, because there's one than one trans young person in my children's school of 1500 pupils.

It's very sad that upholding the rights of young girls is derided as 'trash bashing " .

Unsurprisingly , this is about upholding the rights of people with a penis over the right of those with a vagina . Not exactly a new thing.

Original poster
Babieseverywhere · 12/01/2017 10:25

This not a "trans" thread it is a "women's safe space" thread.

The only relevent point is how the GIRLS feel.

The boy in question could be the nicest, safest child in the world and it would STILL cause the same difficulties for the girls.

The girls would still not enjoy a women only space. They would still struggle with their biological needs which the boy doesn't share. They would still not wish to undress or share a room with a boy. It would be teaching the girls that your feeling in your head over rule biology and logical.

There is not one good reason to allow a boy into guides.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/01/2017 10:25

Ffs!!! The trans child IS a girl. They were born in the wrong body. they are learning to live as girls and then women.

What exactly does born in the wrong body mean? Do you have any links to peer reviewed scientific papers which might explain this further?

Could you please define what you mean by living as a girl or woman?

CockacidalManiac · 12/01/2017 10:25

Can't you just have a transphobic board where you can post this bigotry?
Unless MN actually acts on this, of course.

ArcheryAnnie · 12/01/2017 10:25

This effectively also excludes Muslim girls because if there is a risk they will be sharing a room with a natal boy, they won't be able to go.

I had to talk a friend into keeping her daughter (her incredibly bright daughter) in secondary school because the toilets were gender-neutral, and this absolutely horrified her on religious grounds. Now in this case I think I was broadly right, because the gender-neutral loos were designed so no one individual could be trapped in them by another, but I wouldn't have any valid argument to prevent her taking her kid out of Guides, or any other organisation that segregated by gender not sex.

Mammylamb · 12/01/2017 10:25

Yes. Those pesky boys pretending to be trans so they can share a tent with the girls Biscuit

DailyFail1 · 12/01/2017 10:26

There are studies out there that suggest nearly half of all trans girls are either raped or sexually abused before the age of 12, which is why it's recommended that they be treated as girls from the start. However there are also stats that suggest a lot of trans girls suffer sexual assaults/bullying from girls born with a vagina too. It's much safer for these trans girls if the other kids don't identify them.

PansyGiraffe · 12/01/2017 10:27

"it wouldn't necessarily have to be a 'sex pest' situation, teenagers are curious. Sharing a room with someone of the opposite sex is not something I'd be happy with allowing my teens to do."

My children aren't teenagers yet so I don't know how I'll feel, all what they'll be like then. However - I know that as a teenager I wouldn't have been curious to experiment with some random boy's penis unless I fancied him (and then, not in a tent full of other girls!), and particularly unwilling to let him have a go with me. Never mind the fact that the penis in this scenario belongs to someone who is likely to feel fairly conflicted about having it, let alone showing it off. I do know that as a teenager I had friends who were boys and never once did we experiment with each other, and that included innocent overnight stays. It seems to show a real lack of trust about teenagers.

Given the numbers, it's far more likely that any experimentation will be lesbian experimentation? If the girls aren't jumping on each other in a tent normally, why would that change?

Kr1stina · 12/01/2017 10:27

The trans child IS a girl. They were born in the wrong body. they are learning to live as girls and then women

I understand this is your personal opinion and you have a right to hold it. But you have no right to impose it on me.

Same as I don't have. Any right to insist you or your kids live your life by my religious beliefs

ArcheryAnnie · 12/01/2017 10:27

Cockacidal where is the transphobia here? And would you like to consider why you don't take girls' safety seriously?

WorraLiberty · 12/01/2017 10:27

This effectively also excludes Muslim girls because if there is a risk they will be sharing a room with a natal boy, they won't be able to go.

Trans rights trampling over women's rights. Again.

No, that will be the parents trampling over their daughter's rights, due to parental choice.

SpartyMcsparticus · 12/01/2017 10:28

What definitions are you using for girl and woman strongmummy? Not the dictionary ones it would appear. And please could you explain what you mean by born in the wrong body? Does it have anything to do with the outdated, untrue and deeply sexist concept "the lady brain?"

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 12/01/2017 10:30

Born in the wrong body is a meaningless statement, without a scientific basis (and as an aside, a lot of transwomen disagree with it and would castigate you for transphobia for using it).

DailyFail1 · 12/01/2017 10:30

I would question how little a muslim/hindu/sikh/buddhist parent understands about the culture behind their own religion, if they get worked up about trans kids in school. Traditional middle eastern -> Asian cultures have always recognised trans women unofficially as a 3rd sex. India even recognises it legally.

namechange20050 · 12/01/2017 10:30

I'm with you OP. What a load of bollocks. What is the point of having segregation if we make exceptions like this? Why is it the girls always making way for the boys?

And no, trans girls aren't girls. They are biologically male FFS.

Too many people rushing to be seen as right on and totally lacking in critical thinking. Trans women commit crime as the same rate as cis men.

JagerPlease · 12/01/2017 10:31

Imagine one day that you woke up and your vagina had been replaced by a penis and your breasts were gone. You were still the same person mentally, but physically appeared male. And everyone then told you, sorry, you are defined by your genitalia. This is how a trans woman feels every day.

Do people have the same concerns about gay children associating freely with their children? Should the guides be informing parents that their daughter may be sharing a tent or washing with a lesbian? Based on what we got up to at school, the odds of something sexuality going on between two girls is far higher than someone being assaulted by a trans girl

helpfulperson · 12/01/2017 10:31

what I don't get about all these threads is if gender is a myth/unimportant what does it matter if boys and girls share tents/spaces. and if it is about sexual attraction then what about the lesbians. Most I know knew by a young age who they were attracted to. should we segregate them as well?

ArcheryAnnie · 12/01/2017 10:32

Never mind the fact that the penis in this scenario belongs to someone who is likely to feel fairly conflicted about having it, let alone showing it off.

PansyGiraffe this may have been true in the (dim, distant) past, but it hasn't been true for a very long time. There is now no effective corrolation between people born male who identify as transwomen and people born male who have dysphoria about their penis. Many transwomen are proud of their male genitals, as the slew of dick pics from transwomen on social media will tell you. (I'm not linking, but feel free to google if you want to....) Most transwomen keep their male genitals in working order, and many claim that it isn't a male body part at all, since it's on them.

Original poster
Babieseverywhere · 12/01/2017 10:32

@Otherpeoplesteens

I believe in biology. With a tiny intersex exception. Everyone in the world is clearly male or female.

The guides are allowing boys in under a 'feeling in their heads'...biological these children are male. Socially they are raised with male privilege, which I forsee these boys making these groups about themselves rather than joining in with the groups.

If you visited a Cubs and then a Brownie group, you can see how both groups interact and play very differently. The cubs group run around more and play fight. The brownies tend to play games like tag and don't be as physical as the cubs.

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