To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

[Babieseverywhere]

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

Women and girls have the right to sex segregated spaces. They have the right to privacy.
trans children also have the right to privacy. They shold be supported to their own private spaces if they do not wish to share with their own sex.

Imposing yourself into the space of people who are the opposite sex and who DO NOT share your gender identity either is the opposite of asserting your right to privacy.

Girls have the right to occasional privacy away from all male children, regardless of the stated gender identity of those male children.

Feel free to imagine that a male child has a female brain if you are capable of ignoring all science and fact to the contrary.

But kindly refrain from treating actual females as if they also posess your imaginary female brain and imposing your ideologies upon actual females who are busy dealing with the realities of being born with an actual female body.

You cannot impose an imaginary gender identity on an entire group of people just to support your intention to encroach upon them.

Well, you can try, but expect women to counter this with some truths about themselves that don't jibe with this nonsense.

I don't have a female gender identity, nor does my daughter. There is no circumstance which justifies us accepting a male person as the 'same' as us; neither sex nor gender.

not

People simply don't equate a 10-year-old gender confused boy with the same issues as those of your husband. Which, of course, I can understand. But since they are BOTH included under the trans umbrella, I simply can't comprehend how people do not think deeper about the ideology in general.

It might very well be that the experience and inner mental state of this boy and your husband are coming from a completely different place. But until the layer upon layer of transgenderism is deconstructed and analysed, we are stuck with the one framework.

Including transgirls in the guides, is the exact same principle as allowing a transvestite cross dresser to get off on his legitimate access to your bathroom. It's not about individuals and their rights or issues, or distresses. It's about the over arching laws that are not only going to include a very unpleasant element, they are forcing women to redefine the actual meaning of womanhood.

No one has been able to answer me the question, what are the similarities between transwomen and me, that mean we are both women. Without resorting to sexist stereotypes.

for you.

@itsmine, yes I believe that some places should be separated by sex. Prisons, certain hospital wards, places of support. I consider Guides to be a place of support where developing girls can find their own identity free from societally determined pressures/influence. In an ideal world.

Completely agree with you @Datun, it's about treating people as individuals, not stereotypes.

Itsmine, I answered your question. Perhaps you missed my answer because I didn't put your name at the top, so here it is again.

'Because boys are still socialised to dominate. It's really simple.
Boys take up more space than girls, physically, verbally and in terms of the teachers' or group leaders' time. When they stop doing that maybe there will be no place for single sex groups for children.'

itsmine GG asked its members, they wished to remain girl only, they also wished to include trans girls and women.

(Also - I am staggeringly aware of my own bias! It's on my list of things to fix.) ❤

Guides and scouts are separate organisations that made their own decisions. It wasn't one overarching decision that decreed Guides should stay the same and Scouts change.

Its I don't think Scouting should have become co-ed, but they are a completely 100% separate org from GG, they are similar, and they were started by the same family, but now they run entirely separately. It's kind of like saying it's unfair that some historically all-boys schools are now co-ed but all girls single-sex schools remain all girls. It might be unfair, but GG asked its members and they were very clear on wanting to remain girl-only, scouting chose to become co-ed due to low numbers.

Cross-post :) no problem! It's really common that Guiding and Scouting get lumped together, understandably, but it's also really frustrating when you get parents like "xyz scout group do this, why don't you" haha

Scouting and girl guides are totally separate organisations incidentally. Girls have been part of the scouting movement for over 100 years: www.scoutcollecting.co.uk/post-girls_in_scouting___when_did_it_all_begin.html

I don't object to boys having boys only groups. For one reason it stops the whining of the whatabouters. And I do believe that sex segregation is ok for both sexes, but safeguards need to be built in to prevent an already dominant group from abusing this to gain even greater advantage over an oppressed group.

Boys don't need sex segregated groups for anything like the same reasons as girls do, much like white only groups serve an entirely different and nastier raison d'etre to those of people of colour.

But yeah, have em. Saves an annoying argument or two. Upholds a principle.

Hairy I agree. Did you see the thread a while back about a boys only craft group? That seemed fair enough.

I dont agree with what was historically boys clubs being open to girls and boys, but the same movements girls clubs staying single sex. Seems a bit unequal to me.

On the face of it it does look unequal. But because girls and boys are socialised differently, men dominate even when the gender split is equal. For example, the entire world. ( gender is fairly equally split across the globe, but women only own one percent of property. And women are subjugated everywhere).

A recent study showed that when women talk for 25% of the time in a meeting, they are perceived as having dominated the meeting.

Having one man in a female only space will drastically change the dynamic, more that if it was the other way around. Men as a class are not up in arms about transmen invading their spaces, for a very good reason. It doesn't bother them. Because it doesn't change anything.

I thought the Scouts and the GG had quite a different core objective? That was how I interpreted it.

Yes to separate sex groups where appropriate. For example, a computer club for boys because girls can't code, no. No to that one. But a boys only club where it's about mixing with other boys your age, trying lots of different things without an agenda to define what a boy is, and to allow them to define that individually, for themselves. I would be completely for that.

*Where is any of that posted wic?

Where has 1 poster said they want this child to be lonely and to not associate with their DC?
Please copy and paste such posts....i double dare you.*

I don't want my daughter sharing a bedroom with a boy either. And while trans people are recognised as a third sex, they're separated, not bunged in with the girls.

Oh look, I only had to go a couple of pages in to find one. The bile spewing from this user throughout the thread implies that she considers trans girls to be boys. To translate her hate speech into simple terms for you, she's saying that she doesn't want her dd associating with a trans girl and thinks that the latter should be "separated".

Quite honestly this thread is very upsetting. How can you say you support girls - oh, except her. And her. And her. Wonderful feminists you are. I shudder to think about the legacy you're leaving the younger generation.

wictional is it your belief that unless you accept without question the belief that trans women/girls are women/girls and trans men/boys are men/boys, then you are bigoted, transphobic and hate filled?

They are boys. I'm not going to "imply" it because I don't need to. It's not wrong to consider transgirls as boys, it's factually correct. They are boys with gender dysphoria.

Leaving thread now to go shopping. Funny true story for you, our marriage therapist was trying to sell my new situation to me by gushing about how marvellous it is that we could go shopping together for girls clothes, because that's a womanly dream.

I am going food shopping, reluctantly because we need food.

I don't think you understood what the poster was saying about countries where transwomen are treated as a third sex, Wictionary...

It must be lovely up there on your high horse but it is made of straw I fear and already sagging.

Wic - she's saying big she doesn't want her DD sharing a tent with someone with a penis. You may not consider them a boy but they aren't a girl.

No one is saying they should be shunned and ostracised. Just that guiding is a girls' organisation. And a boy who thinks he'd rather be a girl is still a boy