To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

[Babieseverywhere]

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

So a child who was born as a boy becomes a girl -
There is an organisation called the Girl Guides -
Said organisation has amended its policy -
Transgender children will be allowed to join -
Some people find it offensive -

OP, when did it become acceptable to exclude a child? The fact of the matter is that if a transgender child joins the Girl Guides then they do so in the capacity of being a female, a girl, a daughter to someone.

There are all sorts of things that people don't understand, that they don't like, and that they don't agree with etc but a personal view point is not a justified reason for exclusion or bigotry.

I can hold my hands up and acknowledge that I don't understand how it must feel to have an identity that is the opposite of birth gender, I don't know what it is like to see an image in the mirror that doesn't correspond with how I feel, and I can't imagine the pain of being told I have to conform with a gender that I don't recognise but I have compassion, sympathy and tolerance - I can't understand but I can accept.

I'm a Christian but I do not believe in the venom that is spouted by the God squad, the entity referred to who seems to be full of hate and prejudice; Well "their" God is not my God.

Children should not be used as pawns in their parents' crusades, nor should any parent knowingly project their ignorance onto their offspring. I would imagine that most non transgender kids would not be concerned at all about the prospect of sharing space with a transgender child - It is parents who instill fear and it's a pretty poisonous thing to do in my opinion, it will only create generations of narrow mindedness, (And we have enough of that already).

To make someone else's child a target in some misguided and unnecessary attempt to protect your own child is bordering on vindictiveness. Would you encourage people to exclude a child who had a cleft lip or Downs Syndrome? You know just incase they were violent or wanted to molest your precious bundle of perfection!!!!

Some of the excuses on this thread are downright pathetic and only serve as a reminder once again about how ugly human nature can be. It's heart wrenching to realise that there are ADULTS being so cruel towards CHILDREN and even more worrying is the fact that some are using their own kids to justify a toxic stance.

Women's rights has nothing to do with any of this, it's an insult to people's intelligence to pretend that you care about the rights of girls etc when the reality is when all is said and done, you really don't. Your incomprehension of the facts speaks volumes and this coupled with the passive aggressive terminology really makes me pleased that I don't know people like you (or any of you) in real life.

Text book theories and statistics are not a true reflection of anything in life, every circumstance brings its own uniqueness for a multitude of reasons; To suggest that girls might be at risk of harm because a transgender child is in their proximity is literally laughable and a delusional conclusion to arrive at - Now if you replaced transgender child with LION then yes I would fully fathom the concern but we're not talking about a wild animal here, it's a child.

If your daughter (in the context of Girl Guides) is such a princess that you honestly think they would harbour thoughts of "Oh mummy that transgender girl smiled at me" then I'd suggest you've raised an ignorant madam with an over inflated opinion of herself (Which she likely got from you, OP).

Bring your kids up to be accepting of differences and to embrace the VERY REAL TRUTH that NO ONE IS MORE SUPERIOR, instead of drowning them in misconceptions and preconceived notions.

If your child at Girl Guides (or anywhere else for that matter) wants privacy, tell her to ask for it, if she isn't happy with something tell her to address the matter with common decency, teach your daughter to be confident in her own mind so as she is able to speak/think/learn for herself and most of all teach her to be kind - Don't teach her ignorance!

"It's everything to do with girls having their own female space without having to accommodate born males and their innate privilege."

Simply put this is the issue. Why don't people understand that?

Again, I say, what about the girls wondering whether they are FtM trans, or non-binary, or just not have a female gender, and having to leave the organisation.

People only ever seem to be concerned about increasing the rights for MtF even if it means decreasing those who are, or are wondering whether they may be, FtM.

Gender expectations should be left at the door of Guides.

TBH if this new policy remain, I think it will be the end of Guides.

They will gain small number of boys who want to invade girls space, which is only something a boy raised with male privilege would do.

They will lose many girls who will no longer be able to attend due to religious reasons.

They will lose another set of girls (like my children) who will stop going as once a girls only club has boys in it, it is pointless as it only teaches girls to toe the line to meet boys needs.

There will be another set of girls who feel like boys (which will be 3 times larger than the group of boys who feel like girls) and the policy implies these girls will be managed out of the guides ! Which is ridiculous, a girl who has short hair, wears comfortable clothes and does not perform femininity is STILL a girl. She will always belong in women's spaces no matter what hormones she takes or operations she has. Why limit how girls must behave or wear to be in guides ?

They will lose a lot of volunteers and leaders. All of which are women who talk about the girl only group as being the most important part of guides and most are mothers too. None of these ladies will want to lie to the parents about boys coming into meeting, trips and overnight stays.

So the boys in forcing themselves into an girls only group will probably shut it down in the long run.

The cynic in me says this is result aimed for, after all men hate women meeting together alone for any purpose. Even when that was only one hour a week in a drafty church hall, making friends with other little girls from the local area and enjoying the girl only space which is not available at any other time or space.

But of course who cares about all the girls and women who NO LONGER have the right to meet up.

It is more important to validate a boy who has natural childhood feelings, which he is highly likely to outgrow and forget as he gets older !

Our girls will not forget the lesson....only men matter.

Could you email GGUK with your concerns, Babies? Pretty much your last post, really. There's an email link at the bottom of the page you linked to.

They will gain small number of boys who want to invade girls space, which is only something a boy raised with male privilege would do

How does a trans girl become raised with male privilege if society has treated them as a girl since a young age?

Surely that person would be treated by society as a female if society assumed they were female?

So they wouldn't have male privilege?

They will lose another set of girls (like my children) who will stop going as once a girls only club has boys in it, it is pointless as it only teaches girls to toe the line to meet boys needs

What needs does the trans girl need that can't be accommodated?

Did you know, OP, that trans women are women, not men, and that trans girls are girls, not boys? Sorry if that blows your mind.*

Bollocks are they.

Bollocks are they.

Exactly More

*So they wouldn't have male privilege?

Male privilege is there from toddlerhood. Certainly by the age of three or four. Trans girls are likely to be teens who will have grown up male and all that entails.

What needs does the trans girl need that can't be accommodated?

The need to join Guides apparently. As opposed to a mixed youth group.

MoreThanUs, well said. This thread has truly saddened me and it makes me wonder if some of the posters here live in Royston Vasey.

All I can say is thank goodness young people today are more open minded and accepting than there parents seem to be.

I'm coming very late to this discussion.

I used to run a Brownie unit and still receive the leaders' emails. I don't recall seeing any mention of this policy being developed. The link to the GGUK webpage won't open for me - does it say there whether the leaders or the wider membership were consulted on it?

For what it's worth, I think this could become a huge mess (in much the same way that the introduction of the new Promise did). GGUK was always very clear that it would remain a single sex organisation - unlike the Scouts who decided to admit women and girls - for several reasons, but principally that it was a safe space for girls and young women and that some parents chose Brownies and Guides for their daughters because of this and would not allow them to attend if boys were admitted. Now, it seems, it's no longer about sex but about gender. It seems likely that those parents who don't want their daughters to be in a mixed sex group will take their daughters out or not allow them to join. I'd be interested to know how Girlguiding HQ propose to deal with that. To borrow a phrase, I suspect those girls and young women are going to be thrown under the bus.

But it's not accepting of girls who are not sure that they have a gender or that their gender is female. The new policy excludes them, but apparently that is fine and not worth standing up against.

Sorry, my last message was aimed at helpfulperson.

Maud, I agree. Can you email GGUK to ask them about it.

I agree. Somehow, without anyone noticing (except OP - good spot!), GGUK has had a pretty fundamental change in policy, from being a single sex organisation, to being a single gender organisation.

As an organisation that has fought so hard to empower females, to disregard pointless and unnecessary notions of gender and to listen to its members, I'm actually quite shocked that it suddenly regards gender as all-important, and sex as meaningless.

helpfulperson

I actually shudder at the thought of been a child or teen now. As I would certainly have have been pushed the down the transfer road, taking puberty blockers then hormones, binders and later surgery.

Why would that have happened to me?
Because from 5 I screamed and cried and said I wanted to be a boy, I wanted short hair i refused anything girly would go into hysterics about wearing skirts or dresses, wanted to play with boys toys and rough and tumble. going through puberty was even worse. As it happened my parents just let my personality grow. Allowed everything I asked for. (Still wasn't easy for me)

In todays world with all these helpful organisation and strict gender boxes. At 5, now I would be told, yes you must be a boy stuck in a girls body.

Luckily for me I was born in a more understanding era that accepted gender non conforming children, and didn't rush me off for hormone blockers because I insisted I wanted to be a boy.

Titchy - exactly. Can you email GGUK as well?

*Trans route not transfer

I could email them, but why don't you too?

I already have as I mentioned up thread.

Please, all the people who see no problem with any of this, spend 10 mins of your life on www.crossdressers.com, read the threads by people about their experience of autogynephilia. (You may need to register to see the bad stuff). Their own cross-dreaming. Go on Pinterest, google cissy crossdressers, I wouldn't recommend porn hub so early in the day, but seriously 10 mins of your life will open your eyes to the huge sexual motivation behind SOME of the people who are under the Trans umbrella, the rabbit hole of sexual obsession. These are some of the same people who are shouting so loudly for the Trans movement.

I have personal experience of the dark side if this, and it is horrible. And bloody galling that so many have sucked up the idea that it all lovely, it's like loads of folk think this is akin to gay rights or something. Trans is not a sexual orientation. Trans is an umbrella term, which covered everyone from the wonderful people who are born with a genital abnormality, to those with questions about how they fit in with societally defined ideas about gender, to gay kids who aren't mature enough yet to be happy with who they are, and right, right at the other end of the spectrum are the traditional cross dressers or transvestite who is dressed for sexual gratification. And then even further right, is the nasty man who is using this oh so fashionable issue to avoid going to a mans jail.

Yet everyone is talking about Trans as if it were one thing! AGGGHHHHH!

If you want to invite boys who are being lured down this path by older men on the internet, into Girl Guides, to play with your underage girls, in the name of liberalism, then go ahead. But not for me, I have been there, I have had a man I thought I knew change, or reveal, I don't know, threatening me because I didn't fancy him with my makeup and clothes on, because I wouldn't sleep with other men for him to watch, serve us tea in a costume. I have seen the councillors minimise his abuse of me because if his gender feels, I have seen all the "you go girl, she's just jealous of how sexy you are" chat from other men online.

And I am not, not taking any chances with my daughter.