To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

[Babieseverywhere]

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

And I am still married to him because I have to protect my kids.

Everyone says "go educate yourself". Go online, have a proper look.

The bigots are the people who are in this thread, and all the others, saying that my experience is a blip, that one bad man don't make a trend. Go and read all the other wives stories, they are out there. But it seems our voices don't matter in this new world.

There are, very rarely, people who appear female but have internal testicles, but they do not have ovaries. They are male.

Unless that person's name happens to be Caster Semenya, in which case she is determined to be a woman and wins gold medals to the detriment of women without her biological issues.

I think you'll find Morethan disagrees with you, Satan. I can see your level of reading comprehension is about as good as your understanding of posters' valid concerns.

This is your daughter's new Guide leader folks:

Happy?

And someone always has their first period on camp - it's like a blooming tradition, and for once in their lives they don't have to feel awkward about it or be discreet.

To be fair, i went to an all girls school and I still felt incredibly awkward when I had my period. I started in the middle of a PE lesson and let's just say the other girls were not exactly supportive!

I am about trans girls being in Guides for lots of reasons, but at the same time this idea that female only spaces or groups are always a stronghold of sisterhood and support is just bollocks!

What I am saying is, no I don't think we should discriminate against Trans people in female spaces, I am saying think about what you think Trans is, and think about what it means to their people.

Bunching all these people together under one umbrella term, and treating them as a homogeneous unit, a single identity, both legally and culturally is mind blowingly stupid.

I wish people would stop comparing trans activism with gay or disability rights activism. Neither of those have ever asked others to hand over own hard won rights to appease their own agenda. Being gay or disabled in no way affects anyone else. Being trans doesnt have to either - except, it seems, it does.

Transactivists fought to have the T included with the LGB, but many gays and particularly lesbians aren't happy about this. Being transgender is not a sexual orientation.

People might be uncomfortable with having a transgender person at work, or at school, but fortunately it is a protected characteristic and illegal to discriminate against. However it does not mean that you can actually change sex.

I was reading a blog from a trans-woman who had been completely included into a women only friendship group. One of the women had had a miscarriage and was talking about it. Afterwards the trans-woman said to her particular friend in the group that she wanted her to tell the other woman to not speak about such things because it felt so excluding as she, herself would never experience it and it made her uncomfortable.

I don't think this is typical of trans-women in general, but I do know that being reminded of their sexual status feels alienating for a lot of them. But, I'm sorry, women and girls must be allowed to protect the definition of what a woman means.

No one thinks that women are superior to transwomen, just that women are not the same as transwomen. In 99% of the trans-woman's life, this needn't have a single impact. But women must be allowed to exclude men sometimes, (or even rarely) without having to encounter opposition from men and be called bigoted.

I think anyone who is capable of that much of a lack of perspective and empathy and self-centring themselves to the point where women have to watch everything they say is clearly narcissistic. I don't want people like that taking over women's spaces and guilt tripping them and gaslighting them in this way.

I'm with you op on this. As pp have said, it shows no regards to the majority. Maybe a trans brownies, cubs etc. Trans toilets would be good too. This is all getting so absurd as out of political correctness we are having all sorts of shit thrust upon us , and yes, we can deal with it as adults (altho frankly I don't want to share the toilet with a bloke) but our children shouldn't be forced to accept this.

I have no idea why this means I shouldn't point out why I believe TW as a whole (not just the TRA) are unlikely to offend in a similar pattern to men.

"Unlikely", you say, Morphene? Where's the evidence for this? Any scrap of evidence? Other than your totally erroneous and evidence-free belief that transwomen are likely to be more "nurturing" and "caring" than men - a belief you could disabuse yourself of by spending five minutes on the internet looking at trans forums.

italian thank you for the reply - lots to think about, and I promise I'll try.

At the moment I can't get past the injustice of saying to someone, well there are other clubs in other places that will accept you, so it is okay for this club, that you actually want to join, to reject you purely on the basis of your genitals, because that's simply what the people in this specific club want to do.

Racial discrimination is more powerful than sexism in the UK (imo - but I doubt many would argue), so shouldn't there be rather more no-whites-allowed clubs than there are no-men-allowed clubs? Maybe its because the discrimination is worse that these don't exist?

I guess this disparity exists across the board in that if I am attacked by a man I can insist on female spaces, and doctors. If I am attacked by an Asian, I can't insist on an Asian free space or reject Asian doctors.

Somehow we are far less likely to say a person of race X did something so I reject all people of that race, than to say a person of sex X did something so I reject all people that sex.

Sexism itself has a place of privilege in our society.

At the moment I can't get past the injustice of saying to someone, well there are other clubs in other places that will accept you, so it is okay for this club, that you actually want to join, to reject you purely on the basis of your genitals, because that's simply what the people in this specific club want to do.

So you don't care about the fact that, eg, girls do better in girl-only schools? If you want a magical prejudice-free world, then you have to start by addressing the substantial discrimination that currently exists, and equipping girls to challenge it. And if that means providing them with a female-only space where they can find the opportunity to reach their potential without eg, being talked over, etc, by boys, then that's what we need to do.

I find it interesting that FtT people in general seem to be causing no trouble to men at all. They don't seem to want to use men's toilets or changing rooms. They don't seem to be telling men how to be men or winning men of the year awards. They don't seem to be campaigning to compete against men in elite sport. They don't accuse gay men of being bigots for not having sex with them.

Or if they are they don't seem to be getting the same about of media coverage.

I wonder why that is.

I have posted before about a FtT pupil who attend my kids school. They just get on with their life as usual and use individual changing and facilities. As do pupils who have medical issues that require privacy when changing for PE.

The other kids and staff call the pupil by their preferred name ( as they do to everyone ) . The kid wear the same uniform as everyone else.

There was no daily mail sadface article, no publicity . No demands that all the boys in the school sacrifice their privacy to make one person feel vindicated.

I assume that pupil and their family have been through a lot, but they have decided to keep it a private matter and everyone else has respected that. There was no announcement , no politically correct virtue signalling.

I'm sure that most families with trans kids are like this family . They must shudder when they read what transactivists are doing in their name.

I genuinely want want people to read my posts, and engage with me. Explain to me why they believe my experience to be invalid. Explain to me why this isn't a cause for concern.

That's ignoring all the intolerance to trans being spouted here. I teach my dc tolerance and inclusions. Having a 10yr old transgirl at guides really does not mean you will have a bearded man working in a rape crisis centre much as I am sure someone will say 'its a slippery slope!'

Why do you say it won't it lead to exactly that, itsmine? If you are busy establishing as a general principle that being female is just a feeling, and anyone with a penis can acess it, then that's exactly what it will - and already has - led to.

I agree . A level of analysis beyond

" you are all being mean and hate children and want them to be friendless " " are you saying a ten year old boy is a rapist /pervert ? "

would be helpful.

Just FYI, I think people bringing up race as an analogy is seriously dodgy. It also ignores (or reverses) the power dynamic - people born with penises are privileged over people born without, however they identify.

@itsmine But what do you mean by Trans!?!

Do you mean the intersex or the gender dysmorphia or transvestites? Totally different things.

The first two, of course, no problem to hang with my kids.....but the cissy cross dresser who is wearing the costume of a female for sexy thoughts, and banging on to the women about their ideas being OOD, no thanks.

And the racial comparisons are valid, cultural appropriation is bad, but gender appropriation is fine.

If I were to feel that inside I were a black man, and if my interpretation of black people were speaking jive and packing a gun, and if I were to insist that my interpretation was valid, and that it was bigotry to be offended if I blacked up and performed my interpretation of "black" then I would be quite corrrctly deemed an offensive person.

But if a man decided being a woman is all makeup, being sexy, wearing skirts then that's totally cool.

@itsmine and everyone else,

What do you define as Trans?