To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

[Babieseverywhere]

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

Reading the guidance website in the OP, it does not state that they are talking about allowing MtF transpeople into Guides. My reading of it is how to support girls who may be thinking that they are trans, of the FtM variety.

Well, that would be nice, but the disclosure stuff would be utterly nonsensical in that case. Other girls would notice an FtM using the men's toilets, etc.
Also, I don't think it would be phrased so awkwardly if they just meant FtMs. No parents would be worried about their daughter sharing a changing room with a female bodied person with male genderfeelz.

@CalebHadToSplit If the guidance is for girls who think they are boys, that would be great. That would keep guides girl only, I certainly hope that is the case.

However there would be nothing to alter for any reason if they were talking about girls, why have this guidance at all !

I really hope you are right.

There's an email address in the link - who's going to email for clarification?

It's guidance for leaders who may not know what the protocol is if one of their girls identifies as a boy and wants access to male toilets on campsites / separate tent if they require it. I can imagine a lot of Guiders who are a bit out of touch with gender identity trying to insist that they use the girls toilets, or announcing to the unit that Flossie is now trans. It's to have some consistency and a clear message.

The whole website, and GGUK's mission, is about empowering girls and giving them a safe space free of sexism and gender expectations. I can't see anything saying that MtF transpeople are allowed to join.

An earlier post talked of a FtM guide leader who left the organization due to this new rule change. As a brand new Brownie Guide leader I've read this with interest. I joined with my daughter as we live in a house with 5 males and a 'girl only' space really appealed. I would imagine females identifying as males no longer feeling welcome will be more of an issue than biological boys wanting to join :-(

Bugger. Unfortunately my hopes were dashed: www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/policies/girlguiding-policies/equality-and-diversity-policy/transgender-gender-reassignment/

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer hahaha yes I did! And I literally read it totally wrong! I thought it meant they only tell the girl parents if the boys are allowed to! Not that they won't be told at all!

rose

Sorry caleb

Haven't read the full thread because the nastiness about trans people gets me down a bit. I would have no problem with a trans child joining my child on a trip and sharing facilities. I assume any child could get changed in the bathroom if they wanted a bit of privacy.

I'm more upset that we are going to lose a lot of biologically female members (young people and leaders) if they do not self-identity as having a female gender. I've emailed GGUK to ask for their reasoning behind moving from a sex-based to a gender-based organisation. We are going to lose more people than we will gain. 😞

I assume any child could get changed in the bathroom if they wanted a bit of privacy.

Yeah, well, it will get a bit full there if all the girls decide they want a bit of privacy when a male bodied person is in the changing room.
Which they likely will.

I recall this is what happened with this Lila Perry person.

caleb

Hadnt thought of that...you will if they have to sign something

Although people used to lie about the god and queen bit...maybe they will 'lie' about this belief as well

Such a shame when you see it from that side

If an adult self-identifies as a woman then they are able to undertake all adult roles in guiding and may, if they wish, make their Promise.

Would everyone shouting 'bigot' be happy about Danielle Muscato being their daughter' Guide Leader?

What is the problem EXACTLY
A trans girl who is sharing a room with other natal girls will just be behaving like another girl.
Any type of sexual shenanigans are not tolerated anyway and seeing as some of the girls might be lesbians I suppose there is JUST as much risk of someone ogling your daughter even if there are no trans girls in the troupe.
But that's not likely is it because they are 11 and 12 and heavily supervised.
BTW my daughter is a Guide so I'm looking at this as a parent too.

Would everyone shouting 'bigot' be happy about Danielle Muscato being their daughter' Guide Leader?

I am sure they would. After all, the facts are all known, and everyone has been able to form an informed opinion.

Before shouting "bigot" everyone makes sure they are 100% in the right and can stand by their opinion no matter what. Right?

It's nothing to do with sexual shenanigans.

It's everything to do with girls having their own female space without having to accommodate born males and their innate privilege.

How do girls behave?

"just a basic consideration of what it must be like to spend your whole life being told by everyone - society, your family, the medical profession, and then feminism - that you are wrong, wrong, wrong, not welcome here, there or anywhere as you feel you are. Having to fake male gender conformity to avoid being beaten and murdered; then having to fake female gender conformity to the medical profession to qualify under the incredibly rigid terms of that profession as sick and in need of help to get the treatment (hormones, counselling, surgery) that you need. Never being allowed to simply BE, to be taken at your word, and allowed to flourish without fear"

Seriously? You're going to sit and say that to actual women?

At what age? Seriously?

What if your daughter had a problem with it Moosey? Would you tell her she had to suck it up? Amazing how much empathy you have for transwomen and transgirls, yet strangely so very little for other women? I'm assuming you believe we should all move over to accommodate them, not just your daughter?

Bravedancing

I trust you've also popped along to a trans forum to lecture them on why they should just put aside their differences in the name of harmony? I'm interested to hear what reaction you got.

I wouldn't dare step foot inside a trans forum.

Vicious much?

I still can't see how a 10 yo child who thinks they are female, identifies as female, performs femininity and wants to be treated as female, will change the OPs daughters experience of a guide camp as a female space.

Especially as they will likely want to change separately to prevent being outed and there will be absolutely no genital related activity whatsoever.

Has this all female experience been 'polluted' if none of the other children even realise a penis was present?

I still need to understand 'performing femininity'

Makes me feel a bit queasy.