To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

[Babieseverywhere]

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

As those are extremely rare conditions I imagine things would be decided on a case by case basis.

They aren't that rare though - Klinefelters is approx 1:1000, as prevalent as Downs Syndrome

Not RTFT but why would they make it into an issue if none of the boys were going to come? As a mainly female organisation I can see why they asked the lads first so as to not put off the girls if no boys were attending anyway.

I thought (and pardon my ignorance if i am wrong) that klinefelters affects males

They are still males

Sorry misread the OP and didn't realise it was a trans issue - please ignore my last post

Did you just read the op rosie

Sorry rosie

Cross post

Well how are they males if they don't have XY chromosomes, as people have said one this thread that there are only two sexe

I dont know sugar

I read an artcle about an hour ago about low testosterone which mentioned it

The entire article i read on klinefelters said males...didnt mention females at all

klinefelters is a chromosome disorder that effects males, like turners is a chromosome disorder that effects females. It doesn't mean that humans aren's sexually dimorphic.

I think i read something about a condition which only affects females and they only have one x

Cant remember what it was called

What? So a woman who was born female should access a male rape crisis clinic if she gets anally raped

No of course not - sorry that was crass of me. A male rape crisis centre would though be more appropriate though in terms of awareness of how the victim feels.

Aaah there we go

Maybe it was turners

People with Klinefelters have XXY sex chromosomes - so not XY which is male chromosomes. But they present as male, but with increased female hormones, they get breast cancer etc. I'm just saying that sex chromosomes is not the best way to determine whether someone is male or female and sometimes it's down to personal preference and how the person chooses to identify.

sugar

I appreciate the point

I was just confused because someone with klienfelters is still male so technically shouldn't be able to access female spaces anyway

But i do see what you are saying

Thats why genitals are the tried and tested method sugar of derterming sex. If it is not obvious by the genitals then looking at the DNA is the next method.

This really isn't about individuals. It's about a class of people, redefining themselves as women. No one wants to see a trans-child getting distressed. But as a poster on here, who is the parent of a trans-child, has pointed out the transactivists are making this political. To the detriment of women and genuine trans people everywhere.

I have probably shared my sex segregated space with trans-women for the last umpteen years, with no problem. But the trans umbrella now includes late transitioning males with autogynephilia, fetishists, and anyone who says they are a woman, part time, full time or just at the weekend.

It's not about bashing people with gender dysphoria. It is those same people who are being forced into a position which is as objectionable to them as it is for women.

When laws are being made to include anyone, ANYONE who says they are a woman, it is people like the poor kid in the OP who are going to be included.

That is transactivism for you.

The Y chromosome confers maleness. Extra X chromosomes in addition to the Y don't negate that.

Wonderful contribution there Mrs well done for that well thought out post

Reading the guidance website in the OP, it does not state that they are talking about allowing MtF transpeople into Guides. My reading of it is how to support girls who may be thinking that they are trans, of the FtM variety.

I'm just saying that sex chromosomes is not the best way to determine whether someone is male or female and sometimes it's down to personal preference and how the person chooses to identify.

Sex chromosomes may not be the best way, in most cases it is decided by external genitalia. It is not determined by feelz - sex is biological characteristic that is observable and measurable.

The Y chromosome confers maleness. Extra X chromosomes in addition to the Y don't negate that.

Yeah. Besides, I don't think most men with Klinefelters would be happy to have their maleness questioned.
There are only two sexes. A single person only has reproductive organs of one sex. There are, very rarely, people who appear female but have internal testicles, but they do not have ovaries. They are male.

Also, this is nonsense and has nothing to do with the topic, which is about girls being forced to share showers and changing rooms and tents with persons who are unambigiously male from a scientific point of view.
Trans and intersex are not the same thing. They have little to nothing to do with each other.

Usually, a female baby has two X chromosomes (XX) and a male has one X and one Y (XY). But in Klinefelter syndrome, a boy is born with an extra copy of the X chromosome (XXY).

The X chromosome is not a "female" chromosome and is present in everyone. The presence of a Y chromosome denotes male sex.

Boys and men with Klinefelter syndrome are still genetically male, and often will not realise they have this extra chromosome,

Sorry - that is from the NHS - Klinefelters doesn't have anything to do with transgender issues.