To not want to provide my DC nationality and country of birth to school?!

[SoDownSoGone]

What will the government do with the Country of Birth and Nationality?! AIBU to not provide this info?!

this is one of those 'why complain if youve got nothing to hide?' threads isnt it? Like 'why draw your curtains if youre not hiding anything?'
Principle of the matter. People shouldnt have to supply irrelevant personal info if they dont want to.

imagine how easy it is to deport the parent of a non-British child

It's not easy to deport anyone. In fact, it's difficult. Largely due to the Human Rights Act (1998) which the government want to replace.

If you're looking for something to object to, this is more worrying;

www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/human-rights-act

the Human Rights Act (1998) which the government want to replace

Save the Human Rights Act

Please sign the petition

savetheact.uk/

Don't look at the intention to abolish the Human Rights Act (which gives everyone the right to a free education) in isolation from this desire by the Home Office to withdraw education from the children of illegal immigrants.

OK, deportation isn't the main topic of this thread, but I have to say that it's utterly false to say 'it's not easy to deport anyone'. People can and are deported on the slightest of pretexts. I'm an academic surrounded by people who work on these issues; I also know people who have been affected directly by them.

Theresa May has done things like this for example:

www.independent.co.uk/student/news/theresa-may-wrongly-deported-48000-students-after-bbc-panorama-exposes-toeic-scam-a6958286.html

The reason Theresa May had such a hard deporting that criminal was because he was a British CITIZEN. Non-citizens are easy to deport.

I have been settled in the UK for a long time, but I only became a citizen this year, because the legislation kept changing (e.g. expensive new identity cards were introduced), and frankly I no longer felt safe living here as an immigrant. So now I'm British. I'm lucky. As a new UK citizen, I love and respect this country and I will do everything I can to uphold British values, which to my mind includes making sure that immigrants living in the UK are not unfairly treated. Because I'm convinced that immigration enriches British society.

I now have a piece of paper saying I'm a citizen, but I'm doing all the same things I was doing before I had it. Teaching British young people, working as a school governor, volunteering in the community, supporting local businesses. Do you know how many health care professionals in the UK are immigrants by the way?

I hate the anti-immigration rhetoric here and I hate it in the USA. To me, writing 'refuse to disclose' on the school form that asks me where my DC were born and whether they are citizens is a small but crucial gesture of resistance.

Oh god, wait, that criminal wasn't a British citizen, he was the parent of a British citizen. Sorry!

May also has the power to deprive dual nationals of citizenship though, and she has increasingly used it.

Lweji

The use of ethnicity in medicine is based on evidence though! The response to a drug can vary between races for certain reasons and some medical conditions are more prevalent in some races than others so it is useful for the doctors to have this information. For example, people of Afro-Caribbean descent are at a higher risk of having hypertension and the start of their treatment pathway is different to the treatment pathway for a Caucasian< 55.

that criminal wasn't a British citizen

Citizen or not, Article 8 applies

In Berrehab, the Court defined the effect of Article 8 on the deportation of non‑citizens. The substance of the decision was that where the non-citizen has real family ties in the territory of the State from which he is ordered deported, and the deportation measure is such as to jeopardize the maintenance of those ties, the deportation is justified with regard to Article 8 if it is proportionate to the legitimate aim pursued.

In other words, Article 8 protects everyone, regardless of immigration status

Welcome to the United Kingdom

Equal rights for all

hrlibrary.umn.edu/demo/noncitizenrts2003-add2.html#IIb

Welcome to the United Kingdom

Equal Rights for All

www.government.nl/topics/human-rights/contents/equal-rights-for-all

Lweji Due to my Jewish heritage all 3 of my pregnancies were subject to genetic testing. Of course I could have waived it but given my family history it would be foolish to. I married someone who isn't Jewish but I will still encourage my children to have the genetic testing.

Also, you say further upthread that it would be in the US that kids are pulled out from school. That is not the case at all. There are laws protecting undocumented children which prevent this from happening. It is happening in Sweden, Germany and Denmark. This is reported locally sometimes but the media are not being forthcoming about what is really happening in Europe right now.

Sparklefloof

To start with there are no "races".
Any two black people can be genetically more different from each other than any white person in relation to a black person.
Then, the genetic differences between "races" are smaller than between individuals.

But, it still remains that you simply should not use population data to make decisions to individual patients.

It's fine to start more aggressive treatments if an ethnic group is usually more at risk, but you still do not know if it is necessary for that particular individual. It's just fine to go with a more aggressive treatment because it's not harming anyone.
But, not to be concerned about a person from the other group, because that group is less at risk, is dangerous as you could be missing someone who would need a more aggressive treatment.

And it's certainly not acceptable to dismiss results in one individual just because they are within normal for their ethnic group. Because within each group there is still a range of "normal" for different individuals.

Do look up ecological fallacy.

It is different if you want to run campaigns to fight diabetes, for example, or screen certain genetic diseases.

Population data could also, at best, inform some individual decisions. Say, start by using one treatment that works better in that ethnic group. But there are no guarantees that it works for that individual.

Population data should never determine decisions regarding individual treatment.

I'll give you an example. Blood groups have different frequencies in different world regions. If blood group B is more frequent in ethnic group Y, it would be silly to pick one random person from ethnic group Y and assume that this person had blood group B.

When health systems deal with patients according to their ethnic groups it's mostly for cost-effort/benefit reasons, not for the benefit of the patients.

Want2bSupermum

My point is that anyone even without a known jewish heritage could also carry the mutations.

And it would be silly to assume everyone with the same heritage would develop certain diseases.

It is fine to screen certain populations for particular conditions, just as it's done to different age groups, for example. What is not fine is to assume that those outside are free from those conditions or assume that everyone in those populations has those conditions.

Thanks for specifying the European countries that screen school children.

marfisa - well said!

at the end of the day it simply comes to that; it has no educational purpose. end of. asking language spoken, religion or even ethnic background (all as voluntary disclosure) can maybe help tailor the approach. but place of birth and nationality? No. as i said my kids as british and born here but they are actually exposed to 2 other languages and cultures at home which would not be reflected in my answer to this question.

The rates of certain genetic diseases in the Jewish population are very high compared to the rest of the population which is why all jewish persons and interfaith couples are tested. Take a look at this. I had no idea and it shocked me to my core. I had a cousin with Tay-sachs, have another with cystic fibrosis and Gaucher disease gallops through my family with only my brother and I escaping its clutches on my Dads side of the family. The school district I live in are looking at increasing the reserve they hold back because the substantial increase in Jewish population over the past 5 years is going to mean the school district needs to be able to provide for more of these genetic diseases, many of which result in mental retardation.

Anyway, the UK government was collecting the data for sinister means. Shame on them and I would never give them the information they were asking for.

Off course its relevant to your child's education, they are whole beings. They don't leave their culture and family history at the door. Why are you so worried ? Only those with a reason to hide would worry I say.

It's statistics, company collect information for the consensus.

To find out immigration levels too.

Except we know that the government was collecting the data in order to create a hostile environment for illegal immigrants.

It's good of you to keep coming back and saying that again, noblegiraffe! I have kind of given up because people haven't read the thread and it's fatiguing to keep imparting the same information again and again!

schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-had-agreement-to-share-pupil-nationality-data-with-home-office/

I kind of feel obliged to, marfisa because I got it wrong the first time around. I was on the original threads about this saying 'yeah yeah, you're paranoid, this is fine'.

I was pretty angry when I found out the truth. I even wrote an apology thread! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/2794432-DfE-wanted-country-of-birth-data-to-stop-schooling-children-of-illegal-immigrants

They have always asked this. It's not new...they probably do it to help the children. So if they have recently arrived they can be given the relevant help. They ask you on GP'S forms too. It's probably used in census too. And to help understand a child's back ground. And as for the gp I think it is relevant especially if they are new as some diseases are more spread in certain countries. My dh is originally from a different country and we declared it on all maternity forms as I am British so as the kids are mixed I need an extra blood test. Not sure what it's called. So yeah it can be important

I'm not sure it's any different to establishing eligibility for treatment on the nhs. Reasonable I would have thought.
Although each individual teacher / nurse has a duty to each person in their care, they also gave a wider responsibility to ensure that resources are used with care. That does include in my mind ensuring eligibility as far as you are reasonably able.
I don't determine the rules regarding eligibility as your school won't, but it is reasonable to ask them to collect the info.