To not want to provide my DC nationality and country of birth to school?!

[SoDownSoGone]

What will the government do with the Country of Birth and Nationality?! AIBU to not provide this info?!

Rale - I have no word for this. But you are the reason people should indeed be worried.

I'm glad some people to question authority as it is far from the usual response unfortunately, especially here in the UK. We are often very compliant and complacent.

To those with the mantra 'but you have nothing to hide' - you are also showing ignorance and narrowmindness. Having or not something to hide is not relevant. What is relevant is why is the information being collected? Place of birth and nationality do not dictate special needs at school. Just ask (as already done) for language spoken at home if you want to know this to help the children.

I also find the collection of the data intrusive and unnecessary and will not answer it even though 'I have nothing to hide'. My kids are British and born here. Neither me nor the husband are so those stupid questions do not reflect at all the cultural diversity they encounter at home.

Rale
Do you really think that the underperformance of white working class children in education is due to immigrants? Especially when children from ethnic minorities often perform well in education?

What's a working class or middle class school?

Whilst comparing schools asking for the country of birth to armbands may seem overblown, as a small part of the overall picture it is not.

I repeat, yes it is.

YANBU OP. I refused to disclose this information to my DC's schools on principle.

Schools already ask parents which language is the child's main language (i.e. the language spoken at home). There is no conceivable pedagogical reason a school also needs to know which country a child was born and whether a child is a citizen or not. There are British-born citizen children who don't have English as their first language, and there are non-citizen children who do. This information just isn't relevant.

The way the Home Office is trying to stigmatise and segregate immigrants is truly frightening for those of us who are immigrants.

Michael Rosen puts it better than I could:

"Lists
Lists of foreigners
Lists of foreign born people
living and working alongside
those not on lists
Lists of children sitting alongside
children not on lists
Lists to be sent in to government
departments
Lists of names, addresses that can
pass from official to official
from department to department
so that what starts out as 'information'
drifts into ways of saying to those
on the lists that they should have less
they should have no guarantees of the
right to work or live alongside or amongst
those not on the lists
And when it comes to a time when
those who want to say that hard times
are not the fault of people in government
and not the fault of those who own and control
everything
the lists are ready and waiting
Look who's on the lists, they'll say
The lists say it all, they'll say"

michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/lists-lists-of-foreigners-lists-of.html

using schools as border patrols

Has anyone heard of a case of a child's family being deported?

That would not sit well with the British public

Hurrah for Article 8

Are you serious, lovelearning? Parents of British children CAN be deported. Article 8 is often disregarded.

My DC go to different independent schools and I had to provide birth certificate and children's nationality. My DD is in Senior school and I had to do that in junior school too (9 years ago well before Brexit was on the cards)

So, I think this has always happened (I have never applied to a state school so I don't know if it is a new thing for state schools).

I don't want to sleepwalk into a far right, racist, environment but I think schools should know as much as possible about pupils in order to better accommodate their needs.

I think schools should know as much as possible about pupils in order to better accommodate their needs.

But this wasn't about that, this was about school's providing the home office with immigration data.

Schools usually know where kids are from anyway, what with them being right in front of them every day.

midlife: Yes, it is a new thing for state schools.

I don't blame the schools at all for requesting the information; they are just following government orders. In fact, both my DC's schools were very happy for us to refuse the information. DS1's school even included an explanatory note explaining that parents were under no obligation to provide the information requested. The schools just have to show that they've fulfilled their legal obligation.

It's the Home Office who wants these details, not the schools! Not even Nicky Morgan thought that getting this information was a good idea, and Nicky Morgan is far from a bleeding heart lefty!

Parents of British children CAN be deported

marfisa

Please cite me a case

By the way, I'm someone else who thinks your posts on this thread have been great, noblegiraffe. Very fact-based and informative.

See, I am a "liberal" (which has become a pejorative word) but I seriously can't believe that they would have given less priority to children of illegal immigrants.

Children are innocent and education is a human right for every child. Hopefully Britain will revert to its liberal tradition which is the envy of the world. Someone needs to see sense.

OK, lovelearning, here's one article I found quickly. Apologies for the fact it's from a tabloid press (so the point of view of the article isn't one I share).

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/673966/Foreign-criminals-migrants-deported-despite-human-rights-Article-8-excuses-judges-rule

It's just another example of the way Theresa May flouts human rights laws.

Children are innocent and education is a human right for every child. Hopefully Britain will revert to its liberal tradition which is the envy of the world. Someone needs to see sense.

Well said midlife.

The information on nationality and country of birth is being asked for, for a CENSUS. That is an exercise in STATISTICS.
I think it's quite reasonable that if someone asks the question: How many non-UK citizens are being educated in state-funded schools in the UK? - that we are able to provide an answer. At the moment we have no way of knowing - I don't think local authorities know this. If someone claims that x% of school children in x area are from, say, Eastern European countries, it would be quite helpful if we could reply with the actual factually correct statistic. The truth shall set us free, and all that...

I work in a school office and I can promise you that the school will not be loving these DFE guidelines either! Every school is gearing up for the spring census next Thursday and last October the DFE decided they want all of this information recording. It's not something we've asked for before so now we've got to get this information for the 420 kids on roll. As far as I recall, we haven't actually been told the reason for requesting this.
We also now have to asses our pupils proficiency in English for those who have english as a second language. This applies to 70% of our pupils . Again, no idea why.
You don't have to give this information but you do need to put in writing that you're refusing to supply it. There are drop boxes on the system and as long as the school click on 'refused' that will satisfy the DFE, it just can't be left blank.
Please try to be patient with your school office staff, if they're anything like us, they're tearing their hair out trying to get this information!

human rights laws

Article 8 is subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society"

Lady Justice Rafferty, who sat alongside Lord Justice Tomlinson, said: “Neither the British nationality of CT’s children nor their likely separation from their father for a long time is exceptional circumstances which outweigh the public interest in his deportation”

The judges were mindful of Article 8

The case was decided in accordance with law

The op has done a runner, if she was ever real. But totally love the whole educate my child for free but don't ask me my personal circumstances , just give my kids the free education, use tax payers money for it and don't ask. Just give me whatever...

And people saying, oh yes, let's give you that, anyone who asks if you're entitled is a bastard, take as much as you can from the working class, and don't let them ever ask who it's going to.

Yup. ThAts the way it should be.

You're making a lot of assumptions, Bluntness.

It's perfectly possible for a pupil to be

• born outside the UK
• a non-citizen
• with parents who legally reside in the UK
• and who work and pay tax.

But hey, ignorant generalisations are simpler and more convenient than facts.

The whole notion of 'taking as much as you can from the working class' is a red herring too.

Do you know the biscuit joke? An immigrant, a worker and a banker are sitting around a table with 10 biscuits. The banker takes 9 and then tells the worker, 'Watch out! That immigrant is going to steal your biscuit.'

lovelearning: Well, what you asked for was an example of a parent of a British child being deported. And I gave you one.

If the parent of even a British child can be deported, you can imagine how easy it is to deport the parent of a non-British child.

Theresa May wanted to deny an education to the children of refugees and asylum-seekers. To the CHILDREN. No matter what you think of the parents, to punish the children by denying them an education is about as low as you can stoop. Frankly, it's vile.

imagine how easy it is to deport the parent of a non-British child

Deporting a convicted criminal after a lengthy legal battle could hardly be termed easy

Imagine the cost to the taxpayer

From the same article

Lee Corbin, 50, is a serial offender with 75 criminal convictions but was allowed to stay in the UK in 2013 rather than be deported to Barbados because of his “amazing” relationship with his seven children

Wow

Lucky Lee

Hurrah for Article 8

The tin foil hat wearers are out in full force on this thread.

The government knows far more about you than you probably realise, and they've not got some great, Holocaust-like agenda in asking your child's country of birth. Blimmin' 'eck. Unclench.