To think DH is missing so much of the good stuff

[UnbelievablyChocolatey]

Let me start by saying DH is a wonderful man and I love him with all my heart. However, since having DS who is now 10 month old, some of DHs behaviour is really starting to bother me.

One example. Every night we are meant to bath DS together, as DH works all day so it was always meant to be something pleasant for us to do in the evening. But it always ends up being me bathing DS whilst DH is busy tidying up from tea or something like that. Bearing in mind that after bathtime I then give DS his feed and I put him down to bed. So he could always tidy up then.

It's the same on the weekends. If I nip out to do the shopping or something I'll get home and DH will have football on and be tidying up or something along those lines, and DS will be playing. (Our house is already spotless may I add!)

I just feel like he's going to regret missing these early memories. Tidying and all that can wait. Our DS can't. Or am I just being daft?

Mind, with all due respect, I'm sure you'll find lots of women working as consorts/geishas/prostitutes/etc who would say that their way of life has given them enormous freedom in some ways too.

Doesn't mean it's not deeply unfeminist at a societal level.

OH and I are also aware that I have the better mindset for coping with young children, so it was a team decision for me to be a SAH parent.
PLus he can't breastfeed.

Mindtrope and Honey - you're the same poster aren't you?

Also, you used the 80 hours a week point to explain why your husband couldn't help with weaning. Natural for your readers to assume he was working those hours.

Also, if he is available during some weeknight evenings/weekends, why on earth isn't he helping out with baths/nappies/feeding? Vast majority of parents are tired, but don't get a free pass.

I think you're on to something, IAm.

I do find this idea that working 80 hours a week means that you can't be a good parent quite judgemental tbh. Most of my friends have husbands who are out of the house for this kind of time (at least) per week. Not everybody works 9-5 and not everybody works a set number of hours for a given salary. If my DH had stayed in the military he would have been away for months at a time - would that have made him a crap father? These days he has his own companies and does what it takes, some weeks are busier than others. As I said, parenting is about quality not quantity. Some of our friends have moved out of London in the last few years and the husband commutes back in and stays here Mon-Fri. It wouldn't be my choice, but I don't think this necessarily makes them a inept parent.
What it does mean though is that the SAH parent just gets into their own routine and if you're not used to being able to ask your partner for help because he's not there, you tend not to ask anything when he is there because you're in the habit, if that makes sense?

madinche, well said.

And yes to the routine bit. It's easier for me to carry on my routine when OH is around, I'm quicker and more efficient at these things, the kids are used to me, it's simpler all round.
I don't think my kids have missed out by not having their father change a nappy.

Madinche, I still struggle to understand the concept of a 21st century father who has to be "asked for help" in looking after his own children.

And yes, several of my male relatives have worked away when their dc were little. It really, really did not mean that they were too clueless to work out that on those occasions when they were in the baby's presence and the baby had filled his nappy there was something they could do about it. And they would have been quite surprised to learn that this counted as helping their wife rather than looking after their own child, like....errr...parents do.

I've got the morning off and have just put a washload on. Because I'm that kind, helping my husband, washing his and my own clothes.

Oh shucks, just checked, I've got a fanny. Doesn't count as helping then, does it? After all, he shouldn't have to care for his own socks until they become amusing- and I have a sneaking suspicion they never will...

I don't think that working long hours, or working away from home, makes you a bad parent. But equally I don't believe that you have to work long hours in a high level job in order to be a 'good provider', or to set a good example to your children.

Yes I agree treacle.

And being a SAHM or having a partner who doesn't change nappies doesn't mean a woman is anti feminist.

Cory - I'm just saying that fathers who are out of the house a lot due to work are more likely to feel a bit "out of the loop" when they are home. Also, if their wife is in her flow, then she is less likely to think about getting him involved, as much as he is less likely to get involved. You may not think this should happen, but it does.
In combination with this, many men are hard-wired to think that their main role is financial provider, so their reaction to having a baby is actually to work harder and longer hours. They may become hell-bent on setting up trust funds for their children's education and future or whatever. I agree that this should not make then incapable of seeing when a nappy needs changing , but I do think all these kind of factors mean that they are less likely to.
I can only talk from my own experience of course. I'm sure there are men who administer Calpol while taking a conference call all the time!

I think that if one parent is out of the home a lot working then it's even more important that they get involved when they are home to balance things.

It up to every family how they work things out.

zara but the idea of "balance" need not involve every task.

I never mow the lawn.

Should I make sure I do it once or twice a year to " balance" things out?

My DH can do everything required of a parent without any help. He works very long hours . He makes time to be with DC because he wants to be not to help me out. I'm a SAHM.

Well it's up to you, but parenting isn't the same. It's actually really important for children to have two involved parents.

You talk about that not meaning every task and this thread has got stuck on nappy changing. It didn't start out that way.

The reason the having never changed a nappy is so shocking is because babies and toddlers need nappy changes often, every few hours or more. So to say 'he's never changed a nappy through 5 children' suggests he's never cared for them alone. Or even more has never used any initiative if his wife was in the bath/cooking/dealing with another child.

It was also claimed that the same parent has never bathed the children, again suggests he's never put them to bed, never cared for them when they're sick or got mucky and needed a bath.

It's been made out that there's some feminist agenda for a nappy rota just to prove a point.

Actually to me it's quite sad that there are fathers who do zero early years parenting because they're too busy/find it too boring.

Women don't tend to have that option.

because they're too busy/find it too boring.

That's a big assumption.

I did the early years parenting because I am better suited to it than my OH.

Honeybee and Mintrope - if that's the way you and your family have chosen to run things then I absolutely respect that. If you've chosen to care for the children around the clock, every day, without ever going out alone or having a break, that's absolutely fine. I completely respect that.

But you can't use your own choices to tell other people to suck up things in their life that they're unhappy about and could be changed, because I think it's fair to say that in this day and age many mothers and fathers would be unhappy with your arrangement, which is quite traditional.

From my perspective, when I'm at home on my own with the kids (I work PT) then it's my job during the day to look after them. When DH gets home from work (and he's therefore finished his job for the day), it's our job to look after the kids and get the housework and cooking done. That means he tends to choose to do bath and bed while I tidy up, because it's his only opportunity to spend time with them during the day, and he knows I'm ready to have a breather.

Zara speaks a lot of sense.

Well what does better suited really mean? If you'd died or were taken into hospital he'd have had to become suited to it surely.

No ones really suited to changing nappies. I've just changed a shitty nappy, i didn't enjoy it but it needed doing.

If my husband was here and I was in another room would he call me and ask me to change it because I'm better suited to it. No I don't think so.

Madinche1sea Mon 09-Jan-17 09:27:09
"Cory - I'm just saying that fathers who are out of the house a lot due to work are more likely to feel a bit "out of the loop" when they are home."

But surely there was a time when you were new to this whole caring thing, too? When you had to think the whole time about what the baby might be needing, because you didn't know any of it, none of it came naturally?

What I am asking is, supposing you had just not bothered- would anyone have excused you, as a woman? Would the job have got done if you had just decided you didn't feel up to it? Did anyone ask if you felt comfortable caring for this new human being that you knew nothing about? Did anyone ask if you were bored?

I do not for a moment doubt that men can feel insecure and out of the loop. But we forget that the only reason most women don't feel the same after the first few months is that they have worked through those feelings by cracking on with the job.

Men, some men, stay clueless simply because they can get away with it. Women can't. They would either be condemned as monsters or have their attitude medicalised as depression. No way could they expect society to just shrug its collective shoulders and accept that they "don't do" nappies.

Ime those fathers who do have the same attitude of cracking on with an unfamiliar and confusing job in the early weeks are not noticeably more helpless and bored than the mothers when dealing with their toddlers a year or two later.

rumble- but that's a story book life.

If you have a partner who works away or is never home before 8pm I don't see how they can do an equal share in the evenings.

What happens to a child who is born and then suddenly both parents find they "aren't suited to it"?

Joint bath times every single night?

I would drown myself in boredom. Stop being so controlling!

Yes it's that really. I did the vast majority of the early years parenting because I was more suited to it, psychologically and emotionally. As I said, DH must have done some nappies etc, but looking back its all a bit of a fog! It is true I never really expected him to take the lead with the kids when they were little. Maybe that's shocking to some, but I'm just being honest. I can also honestly say I could not have done what he's done either and he never expected me to contribute in that way.

They don't have to do an equal share, Mindtrope, as in doing exactly the same number of nappy changes, or whatever. Of course that is not possible if they are away a lot of the time. But for the child, it is good to have a close physical relationship with both parents if that is at all possible. And it is enormously reassuring to know that if mum e.g. is ill or has to go away, their world will not collapse, because dad is also capable of looking after them and knows their needs.

My relatives who have worked away have all managed to maintain that level of expertise and knowledge about their child's needs by doing as much as they could when they were there and by being interested in updates about the same small details that would interest any carer.

zara- not just the changing nappy thing, OH and I are aware that I am better suited to the child rearing aspect of caring for young children.

My OH has never lived in a family before having his own children.
Combined with the fact he has autism and aphasia, he finds relationships difficult.
He feels better suited to earning money than caring for babies, and I agree.

Our children are not crash test dummies for my OH to practice on.
It has been easier for us and probably better for the children that I have had the hands on responsibility for our babies.