Not cut out to be a mother

[sailorcherries]

Posting here for traffic, at my wits end.

My DS is 6 and has never slept through the night. Not once. He is also the worst self soother in the world.

During the day he is happy to sit upstairs/downstairs on his own while I potter about but at night time WWIII breaks out regularly.

Despite trying everything (sit in his room and gradually move out the door; sit in my room and return him reassuringly; sit in my room and return him without speaking etc) he will refuse to sleep. He cries, gets out of bed, refuses to talk, scratches himself and makes himself sick. I have tried for months and nothing works. He is upset, I get frustrated and upset - I don't smack etc but let him know his behaviour is not acceptable and tell him that there is consequences the next day (tv time/games cancelled, grounded etc).
In the end I end up sitting near his door and he then falls asleep; after 2 hours of screaming and tantrums. If I sit near his door to begin with he will be quiet but won't settle for at least an hour.

Regardless of when he goes to bed he will wake 3-4 times for no apparent reason, come and find me, and then wake me to take him to bed.

I finally went to the dr and his suggestion was that DS didn't need as much sleep (as nothing suffers through lack of it) and to put him to bed later. This has not addressed the issues at bed time whatsoever.

What is wrong with me? Am I that shit a parent that I can't get the basics right? Will I fuck it up with the next? Is there something wrong with my DS? What the bloody hell do I do? Bed time brings me to tears every single night.

We don't have a set bed time, he normally goes for a bath/shower at 8.45-9.00ish and then I make sure to wash my face with him, get in to my jammies and brush my teeth as he does. I then sit and read a story with him, for however long the chapter(s) may be. I don't get hung up on the when he sleeps, but the how and how long iyswim?

This evening has been like one of many, and I know it diffuses the situation but doesn't make me feel much better as I know he still has issues with me not being there, which is what worries me/gets me down.

I'm definitely going back to the gp though, to try and get to the bottom of these sleepless, endless nights. In the mean time me, my work and a cuppa tea will make the wall outside his room door home.

I can understand your concern and it must be hard wondering how to manage this when there will be a baby too. I haven't gone into detail here about how DS1's anxiety manifested itself but it caused us immense worry (which has not totally disappeared, though there's been big improvements). We had great professional support and it made a huge difference. As others have said, push for that. If there's anything your son can suggest that would make it easier for him, do it if you can.

This is not a solution of any kind I know, but when it comes to going elsewhere in the house for a while, without total meltdown, would walkie talkies be any help? Or whatever the modern equivalent is. He could hear you humming or singing quietly and/or speak to you and know you could reply.

Strict routine and consistency will help - not easy to implement at first as it can feel it's taking over your life jut worth it in the long run. Stick to rhe same routine and same timings as much as you can. Zero distractions in his room and zero interaction once bedtime is done but you can gradually move from sitting next to him to his door and beyond etc over several weeks with the same lack of response eg bed/sleep in response to any request/conversation attempt. The important thing is to get bedtime routine in place initially - bath pj's bed story etc so you and he know the signifies and what happens. If there is some kind of lack of natural melatonin being produced these natural indicators like warmth and dim light can help - as can actual melatonin from Dr if required. Sleep deprivation is a killer - good luck with it, you'll get there.

I don't know if what you describe odd quirks are that odd. Ds is 14 now and apart from the first and last one you mentioned ds does all of those things. He too is a dreadful sleeper. He can go days with out sleep then crash for 14 -16 hours. Agree that them being safe rather than being asleep is the way to go.

You are not alone! My son is now 12 but was an awful sleeper as a baby and a toddler and we had great difficulty settling him at bed time as he got older. He grew out of it eventually but reading your description of bed time brought it all back. Our solution in the end was the iPad I'm afraid. I had always believed that TVs / iPads etc were not a good idea in the bedroom but my son was genuinely scared and anxious when left on his own. I allowed him to listen to music with earphones in, it really seemed to calm him down. He still wouldn't go up to bed on his own until he was about 10 but now he is completely fine. My advice would be to try anything that is going to help him feel confident in his bedroom alone, good luck!!

My advice is audio books.

Your DS sounds exactly like my DD who is also 6. She just won't settle, it can take HOURS, I end up lying by her, the earliest she goes to sleep is 9 but 10 is also normal. In the holidays it can be as late as midnight!

Anyway I bought her a kindle fire for Christmas so I can leave her listening to audible as she sometimes will fall asleep to a story CD. I am also trying to persuade her to read herself to sleep but she still wants me to do that.

When the above doesn't work it is infuriating as she wakes up whenever I leave the room and cries for me to stay even if she was already asleep. No way would she settle by herself with no distraction. She wakes up at about 1 and comes in with me. I can count on one hand the number of nights she has slept through!

She has also always been like this, I could never understand (still don't) how other people got their kids to sleep so easily.

I used to think it was something I had done but then I had DC2 who is like normal children and settles really easily! It is just the way she is and it is more common than you think when you start talking to people (two of my nieces are also like this).

kitty - you've described my life. It wasn't till we had our second, who settles and is asleep within 10 minutes and shock horror sometimes asks to go to bed (!!!!!!) that I realised my DD is not broken but is just her.

Holidays can be a nightmare especially if we're somewhere new, bedtime descends into madness.

Haven't read the whole thread but your DS' behaviour reminds me of me as a child. Like your DS I was a very high achiever academically, and I found it incredibly hard to switch off at night. I had awful nightmares and was terrified of being alone in my room.

I didn't cause a fuss so much at bedtime, but I didn't sleep through the night until I was about five. Once I was able to read fluently, I'd wait until my parents had gone to bed then put my light on and read until dawn.

I really wish they'd taken me to a sleep therapist or something, because I still remember the sheer terror of bedtime or, if I'd gone to sleep, waking up after a nightmare and being on my own in the dark.

Have you asked him whether he has nightmares or similar issues switching off?

I have 2 dcs who are diagnosed HFA and are often awake till midnight, luckily they share a room, so I dont have to sit with them.
I've just ordered them a weighted blanket. Could you get a rocking chair for his room? At least you will be more comfortable and nurse the baby.

He definitely sounds anxious. Mindfulness really worked for DS2 but it's not for everyone.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, get help. There are many parenting coaches and sleep experts. Employ one. Whatever it costs (we did it 11 years ago when our child wouldn't sleep) will be the best money you've ever spent. What you are going through is like being tortured.

I honestly don't think a sleep expert will help.

You need professional help for the family.

Get a sleep expert.

People's experiences on here are not as extreme as yours seems.

You need proper help.

This is not nothing sweetie x but up are doing a darn fine job x some kids just don't like sleeping I am luck 7 till 7 sleepers and have been since wee have u tried talking to the doc/ hv positive behaviour from yourself will get better results out of boys I have 2

Just chatted your post with my BF who is a consultant child psychiatrist. She has published a book on ADHD and has a child who is ADHd! She says you should ask GP for a referral to CAMHS to get some help. Most bright high achievers with add/ADHD are like this. Her own is up half the night and often co-sleeps.
The fact you are in here asking means you are a good mum so don't worry but hurry. With help this can be fixed. Good luck and don't stand for any shit from GP....use buzz words about anxiety and vunerable and unhappy she says.
X

My DD also did not sleep until she was 4. The best solution that we came up with was to have her in bed with us, we still didn't make it all the way through the night, but one or two minor upsets a night is a damned sight better than a couple of hours of sleep in total for the night! She is also a high achiever, and frankly didn't sleep through until she was exhausted, have a think about some extra lessons or sport, mandarin, more maths and a cello did the trick for us! I promise, if they can barely stand with tiredness, they will sleep!!

I haven't time to read the whole thread, sorry, so hope this isn't doubling up...

My DS sounds similar, if not quite as full-on as your LO.

Have you tried an audiobook or some music? My DS didn't sleep through until he was 5 and has always taken a long time to settle to sleep. I find he likes a particular music playlist or audiobook story on the iPod - he will sometimes listen for an hour before either falling asleep or asking for it to be turned off.

He also falls asleep better if he can hear us in the house. We leave his door open and save the washing up or similar until after bedtime. He seems to feel more secure laying there hearing us potter/clatter about than being alone in silence in his room.

Ohdear my DC2 also asks to go to bed sometimes... I still find it really weird!!

I disagree that people's sleep experiences on here aren't as extreme as the OPs. Mine often takes three hours to go to sleep too especially after a break in routine. It is soul destroying. I would reiterate OP that it is nothing you have done and that there are lots of kids who are like this.

That said the screaming and scratching combined with other 'quirks' might make me ask for a referral for ASD (which can cause sleep disturbances). Worth another GP visit - take a list of the quirks and get a good doctor who will listen. If he is you can get help and support. I have just done this for my DC2 (who ironically sleeps well). It was a relief to get a referral.

Why are you worried if your child is coping with the amount of sleep he's getting, if he's not tired in school and getting to school on time what's the problem? Some adults need less sleep so why not kids. The poor kid may be bored senseless on his own in his room so try a radio and some books in his room or just let him stay up. You may be punishing your child for the way he's put together, that's not fair. Try more good old fresh air, kids get to little of it these days.

Doctors do nothing unless you cry and bug them to the point of insanity so if things get really bad use your inner brat to stalk your doctor. Also

look up symptoms of AHAD and ASD they can be linked to lack of sleep and be easily mistaken for a clingy kid or boys being boys. My son used to hallucinate every morning because of lack of sleep and I had to take him out of school so be grateful it's not worse. Both my kids have been prescribed Melotonin for sleep problems. I would have just loved 2 kids who slept.

Are you serious Rabblemum? Did you miss this post?

"It's gotten to the point where I have genuinely almost wet myself because of the impact leaving him has, even for that short period of time. I cannot give him my attention, unconditionally, for as long as he needs. I need to pee. I need to eat. I need to shower. I need to be in a position that doesn't hurt my already weakened pelvic ligaments. I will, soon, need to tend to a baby. "

This isn't a case of a parent being surprised that their two month old doesn't sleep through the night. This is a situation which desperately needs to change. I'm sure the OP wouldn't mind her son staying up if he didn't need her to be so constantly with him while he did so.

I haven't read all the comments but hopefully someone has suggested lots of running about in the fresh air in the daytime, less screentime, simple healthy diet and a slow consistent wind down bedtime routine. Good luck sleep deprivation is awful hang in there.

Hey sailorcherries, there are a few ASD alarm bells going off here for me. Proud owner of an ASD child myself... go back to your gp and ask for your child to be referred for assessment for autism spectrum disorder. And push for a prescription of melatonin. You could get a worry doll and have your child write down whats worrying him, feed the worries to the doll and work through them together the next day or so. Other things worth trying are keeping his sleep space as neutral as possible so easier for him to switch off, aromatherapy diffusers perhaps worth a try. I have a huggy ball which my son uses. Weighted blanket we use when he is particularly unsettled. Push your gp for help. You most certainly are not a shit mum, far from it. I hope you get the support you all need.

Jumpingjules (a few messages ago) is absolutely right. The puking and scratching etc is not normal behaviour from kids who simply have a sleep problem (though he might have that too!). Get an appointment with a different GP in your practice and politely DEMAND to get CAMHS (your local kids mental health team) involved if they don't suggest it when you tell them exactly what's happening. Be totally honest and lay it on thick about being really worried about how you will cope when you add a screaming, demanding, new baby to the mix too!

Like some of the other posters have said, details of your story SCREAM autism (ASD) to me too, so say you want your son to be assessed for that as well as a general assessment (regardless of how he behaves at school!). Make sure you take a list of the problems/symptoms in to the GP with you, and your husband too, if you can, to back your story up and so there's no question of you being rudely and negligently dismissed as 'simply a mum who isn't coping'.

Sad as it is, I think your son definitely has have some form of mental health problem going on there (even if it's 'just' anxiety/stress/night terrors/separation issues) so you need to take action. Enough is enough! Your whole family is suffering, so be firm and brave. (Find it. Sort it. Happy life!)

Lots of love and luck! Xxx

Ps -re my message above -I meant to say take any family member with you to the GP, to back you up, not your husband if you're no longer together, sorry. Perhaps a Mum/sister/cousin? Xx