Not cut out to be a mother

[sailorcherries]

Posting here for traffic, at my wits end.

My DS is 6 and has never slept through the night. Not once. He is also the worst self soother in the world.

During the day he is happy to sit upstairs/downstairs on his own while I potter about but at night time WWIII breaks out regularly.

Despite trying everything (sit in his room and gradually move out the door; sit in my room and return him reassuringly; sit in my room and return him without speaking etc) he will refuse to sleep. He cries, gets out of bed, refuses to talk, scratches himself and makes himself sick. I have tried for months and nothing works. He is upset, I get frustrated and upset - I don't smack etc but let him know his behaviour is not acceptable and tell him that there is consequences the next day (tv time/games cancelled, grounded etc).
In the end I end up sitting near his door and he then falls asleep; after 2 hours of screaming and tantrums. If I sit near his door to begin with he will be quiet but won't settle for at least an hour.

Regardless of when he goes to bed he will wake 3-4 times for no apparent reason, come and find me, and then wake me to take him to bed.

I finally went to the dr and his suggestion was that DS didn't need as much sleep (as nothing suffers through lack of it) and to put him to bed later. This has not addressed the issues at bed time whatsoever.

What is wrong with me? Am I that shit a parent that I can't get the basics right? Will I fuck it up with the next? Is there something wrong with my DS? What the bloody hell do I do? Bed time brings me to tears every single night.

God sorry that sounded smug, I meant to show that ASD whilst being associated with less need for sleep, does not necessarily mean a child who won't go to sleep alone.

A reflexology bed time story? I can't remember the author but she's a reflexologist who has written some kids books that focus on sleep spots for kids.
It may not cure all but worth a try towards relaxation?

I just remembered this, I heard a woman talking about it on woman's hour a few years ago, and got some for my daughter who also didn't sleep, it did help for a short while ,
www.landyschemist.com/viridian-100-organic-california-poppy-tincture-50ml
Good luck-keep going you are doing a bloody marvellous job xx

Another endorsement for melatonin and to recommend you try to see a specialist re ADHD/ASD. Google the term dual exceptionality- when kids have conditions like ADHD but have a high IQ it can present itself a little bit differently to how you would expect.

You are doing a great job xx

Hi sorry you're having a tough time, my son is also ASD not saying your son is but some strategies may help, my son also requires constant hugging / reassurance so we have a weighted blanket (godsend and cheaper on ebay), teddy bear hot water bottle, white noise, blue fairy lights and when he's more anxious we do a calming sensory circuit before bed, something like wrapping up or rolling a yoga ball over him. Some children can spend so much energy being normal and well behaved at school it comes out as anxiety at night. Also agree melatonin helps for the initial switch off.

You poor thing! I would definitely go back to your GP as the advice they gave you hasn't worked. I'd suggest you emphasise that your primary concern is your DS's anxiety and distress (that way they can't play the "lack of sleep clearly isn't doing any harm" card). Ask to be referred to the Community Paediatrician for assessment/help. I'm a clinical administrator (not nearly as good as it sounds: - med sec/dogsbody) and worked in community paeds for a while. They deal with this sort of issue all the time and have paediatricians, psychologists, nurses and play-workers that can work with both of you to try and improve things. In the meantime, if you can polish up your Oscar-winning skills and pretend you actually don't mind sitting outside the door for half your life and if you can ditch the punishments it might help reduce the anxiety a weeny bit. If nothing else, pretending you're chilled just might make you feel very slightly less shit. A tough ask I know but might be worth a shot. Good luck my lovely.

juniorcakeoff my son is 6. I've been with my OH 2 years. My son has never slept and has always acted this way at bedtime.
As I said, he has issues in the house/when I am around and separation is involved. For example if I leave the room he has to come and find me, even though it's broad day light and we are in the same building. If I go for a shower he has to come in. He won't go upstairs alone.

He will however go to school, clubs and out playing without batting an eyelid.

I don't pamper to his behaviour during the day, as there is no tantrum. A firm "I'm getting washed and dressed, go downstairs/entertain yourself somehow" or a "You shouldn't be in the kitchen when I'm cooking, off you go" or a "You know fine well where x/y/z is, go and get it yourself". This is enough to stop him, although he still needs to know where I am at all times.
He can take a little coaxing to let me go to work, go to his dad's house etc but gets over it.

At bed time it is when the worst happens.

I have never mentioned ASD/ADD/ADHD, simply his sleep issues. Trust me, I've tried for almost 6 months the 'tough love approach' and it did bugger all. Not sure how stubborn your children are, but mine wouldn't last that long behaviour wise if he was simply refusing.

This is not right, but it's not you. Please go back to your GP for your own sanity and also to get a referral for him.

Thank you everyone, for the kind words, support and advice.
I'm definitely going to go back to the GP and describe everything as I have on here, focusing on the anxiety and distress he goes through.

He may or may not be somewhere on the AS (although, we all are to some degree apparently). He may be HFA, he may have Aspergers, he may had ADD/ADHD. He may have anxiety and separation issues over some fears/phobias that he can't express. He may well just not be able to settle himself. Whatever it is though, I do need help for his sake as well as mine.

Other posters seem to have diagnosed him with ASD, that's all. I know your son is 6, it's just I know another child who was starting to grow out of their behaviour then got worse when his mother starting going out with her new partner. Does he bedshare with ex then? I notice you said he does with GPs. Are these the sort of people you can sit round a table with and bash out a consistent plan? I haven't mentioned tough love anywhere btw, just thinking this is behavioural therefore could respond to behavioural type stuff, breaking the pattern and using rewards and sanctions. Would only work if all doing the same thing though.

My nearly 10 y.o. has big big problems with falling asleep. Has since he was a toddler. He is fine once he falls asleep though. We have tried everything. Me and dp never have evenings together because of it. I keep hoping he will just grow out of it or be old enough to not need me close by until he does fall asleep. He doesn't have ads or add or adhs. Light has to go out at a reasonable time because he shares his room with his twin. Its 10.30 here he says he is not tired. ..... I have told him he can read until he is tired. After reading parts of this long thread I think I will talk to psych. and doctor again. Good luck op.

Hi sailorcherries. I don't normally post but I thought a book I used might help you. I used it for my daughter who was just 6 and has problems switching off at night. It is called 'What to do when you dread your bed: a kids guide to overcoming problems with sleep'. It is a workbook for the child to work through with you and has very engaging and sensible ideas especially as it is written directly to the child. It is not cheap - £12.50 on Amazon - but I think it is worth it. It is based on Cognitive Behavioural Therapy techniques to reprogramme behaviour. Several of the things in it I was sure didn't apply to my child like being afraid of monsters under the bed but when we worked through it she told me they were a small part of her worry - I had no idea! It is very important to work through the whole book, even if you don't think it applies, it has been carefully designed so you should def follow its guidelines! Ideally the same system would be implemented when your DS stays with dad but i don't think not having that would stop it working. I know it's miserable, I've had similar difficulties with mine - also a bright kid and definitely no extra needs in her case - she just struggles to shut down. Hope this is helpful.

Hi OP. I also have a 6 yr old DS, who we also suspect is on the autistic spectrum. He sounds very similar to your son in a lot of ways!

We didn't have any problems with bedtime at all until this time last year, when it all went pear shaped for some reason. DS suddenly started refusing to settle, would be up and down stairs crying and fussing and getting worked up into a proper state. He was worried about having bad dreams, but mostly worried about being upstairs 'by himself' (DS2 was asleep along the corridor) and missing us.

We now have a routine in place that means he stays in bed without a fuss (mostly) but he's still awake until half ten most nights.

In case it helps, our routine is:
8pm up to bed
He can read quietly in bed for an hour. During this time we go up and give him a quick kiss every 20 mins. He has a clock next to his pillow so he can keep an eye on the time.
Lights off at 9.
We carry on going up every 20 mins until he falls asleep.
When we go to bed I leave a special cuddly toy on his bed so he knows we are upstairs.

It's all a bit of a faff, but fairly manageable and I keep much calmer than when he was wandering around sobbing at 11pm.

In the beginning if he did 10 'good' nights then we let him sleep in our bed for a night. This was a massive incentive for him and really helped.

Things like weekends away/having visitors/holidays all totally mess with his routine even if we keep it the same. I just accept it now and brace myself for a difficult few days/weeks until things get back to normal.

He is generally a very anxious boy. He has been seen by CAMHS and is awaiting an assessment for asd.

My DD is 8 and has major anxiety at bedtime. She is also very clingy, always has to be where I am. When she was younger I used to sit outside her door until she was asleep. She will go to bed herself now, but has to shout out 'I love you' about 50 times till she falls asleep. Also she will only go to sleep if either me or DH are downstairs as she's terrified burglars are going to come into the house if we aren't downstairs!

She wakes up most nights about 1am & it used to be a nightmare as we would try & settle her back down but she would get more & more upset about burglars coming in (we've never been burgled and live in the middle of a quiet cul-de-sac!). No amount of pleading/bribing/shouting/coaxing made any difference so in the end we have put a put up bed in our room & when she wakes she comes into our room & goes straight back to sleep. Not ideal, but at least this way we all get a better nights sleep. She is genuinely scared when she wakes up & isn't being naughty. My DS has ASD and although he sometimes struggles to get to sleep he doesn't face the anxiety my DD does. It is hard, lack of sleep is awful. Maybe try as others have said letting him watch a DVD till he falls asleep to stop you having to wait outside his room as you can't do that when you have a newborn. I know how hard it is though.

My ds was the same, he will be 8 in April, he finally grew out of it a year ago in September, funnily enough when we moved house. He started very gradually became less reliant on us. He is a sensitive little boy and needs lots of reassurance, this has improved a lot in the past year too. Hopefully it will get better as time goes on

You said he wasn't upset when you were co-sleeping though. I would stop being concerned with how long he takes to settle or how often he wakes and do what you need to do to get you both some sleep and keep your child feeling secure. He will likely be waking up a lot when the baby is here anyway - especially if he's already a light sleeper.
The tough love approach has probably just made him cling to you more.

My DS1 was a terrible sleeper. At 9 he was diagnosed with separation anxiety and it all made sense. The 'new baby' was actually our saviour- DS1 just wanted someone, anyone with him at night. They shared a bedroom successfully once the baby started sleeping through.
What I thought was going to ramp up the problem helped solve it.

I applaud you for your effort in settling your son. I genuinely don't think I could have done that when mine were young. However, your ability to cope will be sorely tested once baby arrives. I think you and your son would likely benefit from you self referring to your local authority for either a Family Support Worker or a place on their next Solihull Programme (FSW can refer you for Solihull ). Sleep difficulties are covered. You are not a shit Mum, DS is not a little shit. You are a great Mum doing a fantastic job with an anxious child. Solihull can help you with different responses to DS and help him to feel less anxious. You need some support, please ask.

Also - would something like this help?

roomforreflection.com/in-my-heart/

He isn't upset when we co-sleep, he also isn't upset when I sit in his bed/on his floor/just outside his door.
He still takes over an hour to fall asleep though, regardless, and wakes 3-4 times a night.

Tonight it took 1hr 45mins of me sitting against a wall outside his room, working, until he finally settled.

Co-sleeping doesn't work because he moves too much, ends up right up against my back and leaves me no room to sleep. He also kicks about and I'm worried about him hurting my stomach. He wakes up if I try to leave the bed.

I'm debating whether to post!!!
....
Ok here goes...
My ds1 didn't sleep through til he was 8 😳
I realise this will fill you with horror but I remember the gp telling me -after I broke
Down on his office - that poor sleepers are usually very bright
It didn't make me feel any better tbh 😀
What worked for us:
A low dose of melatonin px by the dr for 3
Months - this helped him fall asleep and we used relaxation techniques if he woke up in night. It really helped.
He is now 13 and I have to drag him out of bed every morning 😀
Good luck x

And if I'm honest I wish I had co slept
At least we would have all got some sleep!!

Not a parent so advice on helping your DS to sleep.
You sound like a great parent
For times when you aren't on MN but doing the bedtime do you have things to help try to keep yourself calm? i was thinking of something like mindfulness meditation, knitting or adult colouring in if these might be practical.

should be so no advice

Is there really nowhere in the house you could put 2 beds close to each other? It's got to be better than leaning against a wall for best part of 2 hrs!
I wouldn't try and encourage him to be by himself in the day other than bathroom times either. The more you push the more he will feel the need to try and gain control and feel he has to fight to be near you. If you're cooking for eg why not give him a job to do to help you?
If he has no social or communication delays like you say it's not asd. It sounds like severe anxiety to me which is affecting his sleep.