Not cut out to be a mother

[sailorcherries]

Posting here for traffic, at my wits end.

My DS is 6 and has never slept through the night. Not once. He is also the worst self soother in the world.

During the day he is happy to sit upstairs/downstairs on his own while I potter about but at night time WWIII breaks out regularly.

Despite trying everything (sit in his room and gradually move out the door; sit in my room and return him reassuringly; sit in my room and return him without speaking etc) he will refuse to sleep. He cries, gets out of bed, refuses to talk, scratches himself and makes himself sick. I have tried for months and nothing works. He is upset, I get frustrated and upset - I don't smack etc but let him know his behaviour is not acceptable and tell him that there is consequences the next day (tv time/games cancelled, grounded etc).
In the end I end up sitting near his door and he then falls asleep; after 2 hours of screaming and tantrums. If I sit near his door to begin with he will be quiet but won't settle for at least an hour.

Regardless of when he goes to bed he will wake 3-4 times for no apparent reason, come and find me, and then wake me to take him to bed.

I finally went to the dr and his suggestion was that DS didn't need as much sleep (as nothing suffers through lack of it) and to put him to bed later. This has not addressed the issues at bed time whatsoever.

What is wrong with me? Am I that shit a parent that I can't get the basics right? Will I fuck it up with the next? Is there something wrong with my DS? What the bloody hell do I do? Bed time brings me to tears every single night.

No, there is no where to put 2 beds. Nor do we have the money to buy another bed. Nor do we want 4 people sleeping in the one room.

Why would I just go "ach to hell with it, co-sleep because it's 'easier'" as opposed to addressing the problem?

Because your son's having a hard time and needs you? Because it would be addressing the problem? You've asked for advice and that's what I'd do. If it's not what you want to do then good luck with finding a solution

Poor you sailorcherries! Every child is different. I hope Sod's law means your baby will be the opposite of your DS. Not RTFT but in case nobody yet mentioned it: take a look at the CD "Bedtime Meditations for Kids" on Amazon. www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00BW8YY5G/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1483831809&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=bedtime+meditations+for+kids&dpPl=1&dpID=51oZyYBjzfL&ref=plSrch
Really helped our DD1 from the age of 7 but fine for a 6yo too. Talks the child through how to "leave your worries on a worry tree/in a box" before going off on an amazing underwater / mountain / skyrocket adventure. The only disadvantage for us was that DD1 (now 9) is hooked on these and other sTory CDs but anything for a quiet life. She knows to switch them on if she wakes up too. Good luck with trying all the good suggestions above.

I used to have a similar anxiety around the same age, and I remember the sense of fear and dread. I personally would sleep with him until it all settles down, and he doesn't fear sleeping alone. He's seven, so it won't be forever.

Also he may go asleep quicker if he knows you're staying rather than worrying you're going to eave the second he falls asleep or you won't be there when he wakes.

Sailorcherries, I've re-read a lot of this thread and there is some great advice, don't be offended by all the ASD talk its only a suggestion and as you rightly mentioned we may be all on the spectrum somewhere. Anxiety is the issue and the tough love / new baby thing has really heightened it for him, to your son I think you seem to be pushing him away and he's struggling to deal with that massively, the only way I can see is reassurance. If you don't want to co-sleep and you have your reasons give him something of yours to sleep with. Give him jobs like someone suggested when you're in the kitchen or going upstairs rather than forcing him to be by himself because at the moment he can't handle that by the sounds of it. My son was the same, once he tried to kick the bathroom door down because I'd locked it, but now I accept he needs to be near me at times I give him stuff to do so he doesn't irritate me and after a while he's reassured and feels needed he toddles off to do something else. Good Luck

You just didn't read the full thread.
Co-sleeping isn't an option.
Putting two beds together isn't an option.
Putting a mattress on his floor or my floor isn't an option.
Putting a chair in his room isn't an option.
Those are the practicalities of our situation.

Co-sleeping does not address the problem what so ever, it merely glazes over the top of it. He has severe anxiety at bed time which manifests in some horrible scenes and behaviours. Co-sleeping, as with sitting in his room or in his view, stops the behaviours but it does not address the issues surrounding his anxiety. Co-sleeping, as with sitting in his room or in his view, also does not negate the hour plus time it takes for him to become comfortable and drift off nor does it negate the 3-4 wakings each and every night.

My son has me every single night. I have never once abandoned him or thought "fuck it, can't be arsed with his crying I'm just going to leave him". At the most I've tried the 5/10 minute intervals before going back to reassure, while still being 10 steps away.

I want to know why he acts the way he does at bedtime and why he cannot be alone. I want to know what I can do to overcome that. I don't want to just push it to the side, I want to get to the bottom of it and provide him with solutions that he can use to ease the anxiety and sleeping issues.

I do give him jobs to do, but at times it does mean getting him to go and be by himself. He has never acted up once during the day, just has a need to know where I am at all times and what I am doing. His behaviours around the separation are very different day to night.

The tough love approach was something that happened well beyond the baby being present.

He doesn't go to sleep quicker knowing I am there, as he cannot get comfy while still trying to look at me. It took him 1 hour and 45 minutes tonight to be reassured enough to sleep, with me literally sitting about a foot or two away from his bed, in the hall, while trying to work.

This was after a half an hour cuddle/story, tucking in, kisses and the usual bed time routine.

Hi sailorcherries

This sounds an absolute nightmare for you. Really hope you get this sorted with another little one on the way

I agree with your thoughts on co sleeping, it wont solve anything long term, its like sticking a plaster over it and it would just go on and on until you are co sleeping with a teenager

God knows the answers though hun. I see what you mean about quirks but I wouldn't over focus on them, we all have our ways that seem strange to overs, I used to feel like that about my little one.

There are some contradictions here that make it hard to pin down the actual issue, for one part he is happy to go off to school etc, but he suffers separation anxiety in the house - where he should feel most secure. During the day he is happy to do his own thing, but kicks off every night without fail. And this waking up three or four times, I don't see how that is anxiety related, as I can see how anxiety would stop you getting to sleep, but I don't understand how it would wake you up repeatedly

I can see why it is hard to know how to approach this and with little support from your GP it must do your head in, but I would find a better gp on the nhs choices website and go ask for a second opinion at least.

How does your lad feel about the new baby? does he realise that at that point he will have no choice but to grow up a huge amount as you will not have time to deal with this whilst you are feeding a helpless newborn

His anxiety does seem to be centred on the house and being left alone here, which is what I want to understand more about and try to resolve.

He seems quite proud of the new baby coming, tells everyone about it. He enjoys reading the baby book, wants to help pick the name, bought him a present (well, chose haha), cuddles and kisses my stomach etc. About one year ago he asked me whether he'd always be alone or would he have a sibling.

I don't tend to focus on his wee quirks as they're just him. My concerns are the behaviours he displays through being anxious - scratching, picking at skin, being sick etc - as they are completely different.

Just had a thought does he snore or had tonsil problems it could be sleep apnea that would cause him to wake alot.

I had a similar problem at the age of your son. And it was also anxiety. It was caused by frightening things that had happened (or things I had perceived as frightening) at night. I didn't know that at the time so like him, I couldn't express it properly.

I had a very overdeveloped imagination. My DM was very focused on imaginative play and I used to read into everything and lacked logic or any grounding activities.

What eventually solved it for me was:

• being able to go to sleep while I could hear a television in my room. It made me feel like life still carried on and I was not just by myself in the emptiness. Noise in general really helped. TV, radio, people talking, the feeling of company.

• being told I could get up in the night if I wanted and do what I wanted (go to the kitchen, get a snack, read a book, put the lights on.) knowing that I could do it if I wanted meant that I felt it was always an option even though I rarely took it.

If he is an imaginative boy would it be worth developing a night time companion/friend that would be a comfort?

I didn't sleep much if at all as a child. It can be a symptom of ASD so do ask. When I was young my Mum found her own solution. I had to stay in my bed but was allowed to read or play quietly and not disturb people. I had a potty in my room and I believe in the early days a non openable baby gate too! My family finally got unbroken sleep and I used to wake up, play and then go back to sleep. Don't make sleep an issue, explain it's bedtime but that he can go to sleep when he's tired but that he mustnt disturb you unless it's really important because Mummy needs sleep too. You can also request melatonin to aid sleep in kids like this now. One thing that saved my Mum was me learning to read and doing extra schoolwork as suddenly I started sleeping, and sometimes more than six hours in a row...

Two more suggestions:

1 - if you are no longer with your son's father(?), perhaps he has an irrational fear that you will leave him too (as he sees it)? Perhaps his anxiety about that doesn't manifest itself during the day because he's distracted by school etc, but at night, when it's just the two of you there at home, it reminds him that he could 'lose' you too one day, like he 'lost' his Dad? (He may think he caused the split somehow, as kids often do, by something he did/said and be torturing himself by it, which would account for his anxiety, nightmares, inability to sleep etc). What do you think? Worth talking through his feelings about his Dad with him (during the day, in a happy, safe environment e.g. in a restaurant or on a walk)?

2 - What about inviting a school friend or eg young cousin to your place for a sleep-over? Have you tried that? He may react very differently in front of them and you could discuss with him the next day how he felt and wouldn't it be great if he slept that well every night and had so much more energy for football the next day, etc etc.

(A specialist referral via a GP is still your best bet though, to get to the bottom of the self-harming and separation issues. The self-harming (scratching and puking) is a clear cry for (professional) help and needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP.). Hope it all improves for you soon. Xxx

Luckylorca suggests a sleep over, I think that sounds a great idea

www.anxietybc.com/parenting/childhood-anxiety

www.anxietybc.com/parenting/creating-a-map

theres seems to be loads of good articles on that website op

www.anxietybc.com/parenting/sleeping-alone-or-away-home this one focuses on bedtime streses

You poor, poor thing. Mine was the same and eventually I gave up and let him sleep in my bed. I know you can't do that. I wish I could help because I know the hell of it. I can only think that perhaps a child psychiatrist might be able help?

Dear Op I feel for you. My DS also 6 nearly 7 is a bit like that. It got better with DD. I used to do things like ask him to teach her to sleep and stay in bed. He felt proud to be able to do these things so don't give up just yet it could get better. He probably got used to it just being you two for a long time then changes started coming. Keep reassuring him during the day that you are not going anywhere. Perhaps at night leave him notes to find in the morning to know you checked on him. I used to take pictures of my DS asleep and show him the next day so he knows I checked on him. Now I just tell him and he's fine. Discuss the pictures like I came in you were at th edge so I moved you in or I placed the covers after you kicked them off. He was excited to know what he did whilst sleeping and looked forward to it. Take Ibe tiny step each day. Explain routine to him and have him guess what's coming next might help a little. I hope things improve.
Ps my son thrives on 8 hrs sleep. Some people just don't need as much sleep. But you need to rest too.

If you can afford it I would pay to see a play therapist privately. I've seen all sorts of issues resolved through them (typically takes a couple of months to start seeing improvements though).

It's obviously become a 'thing' and normal strategies that work for children without this huge anxiety probably just won't work.

For what it's worth, I think you are right to try to get to the root cause.

If you didn't mind if he was awake, would he happily play in his room?

In the end I allowed my DS1 to sleep on "his" bed in our room, on the proviso he was not allowed to wake us during the night. I would hear him 2-4 times a night that I was around but settle back to sleep.
He moved out at the age of 9 (promise of a bunk bed), and lived the fact that once a month I sleep in his room.
So we had a situation where DS2 was in his room at 3 months (noisy sleeper who did not give a hoot about being in our room) and DS1 on his mat.
If it is anxiety rooted it is about reassuring, and at least we got our sleep.

Have you tried co-sleeping? It's never good to surround sleep time with stress especially over long periods. He sounds anxious and your separation from his father, having another partner and now being pregnant again could all be obvious causes of this that have not been properly addressed. Some kids are just more sensitive to this stuff. It's not your fault. Just try making bed time cosy together time, don't worry what Gina ford or anyone says. Just focus on de-stressing this pair of you and do whatever you need to do gently. I appreciate that co-sleeping isn't everyone's cup of tea but it won't be forever. Depending on circumstances, some kids really need to have a strong parental connection and sharing a bed is proven to help with anxiety issues. Good luck. You will find a way.

Kisa - OP has explained many times on this thread they have tried co sleeping and it doesn't work for them, nor does it solve the issues around taking over an hour to fall asleep and waking up multiple times in the night.