Not cut out to be a mother

[sailorcherries]

Posting here for traffic, at my wits end.

My DS is 6 and has never slept through the night. Not once. He is also the worst self soother in the world.

During the day he is happy to sit upstairs/downstairs on his own while I potter about but at night time WWIII breaks out regularly.

Despite trying everything (sit in his room and gradually move out the door; sit in my room and return him reassuringly; sit in my room and return him without speaking etc) he will refuse to sleep. He cries, gets out of bed, refuses to talk, scratches himself and makes himself sick. I have tried for months and nothing works. He is upset, I get frustrated and upset - I don't smack etc but let him know his behaviour is not acceptable and tell him that there is consequences the next day (tv time/games cancelled, grounded etc).
In the end I end up sitting near his door and he then falls asleep; after 2 hours of screaming and tantrums. If I sit near his door to begin with he will be quiet but won't settle for at least an hour.

Regardless of when he goes to bed he will wake 3-4 times for no apparent reason, come and find me, and then wake me to take him to bed.

I finally went to the dr and his suggestion was that DS didn't need as much sleep (as nothing suffers through lack of it) and to put him to bed later. This has not addressed the issues at bed time whatsoever.

What is wrong with me? Am I that shit a parent that I can't get the basics right? Will I fuck it up with the next? Is there something wrong with my DS? What the bloody hell do I do? Bed time brings me to tears every single night.

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread but do you think this has anything to do with his father leaving? It seems to be him sleeping in your house with you that seems to be the problem? He feels anxious that you will leave him like his dad did? I'm a single parent btw so not being critical of your situation.

I understand where you are coming from mytimewillcome but his father and I split well before his first birthday. It's all he's ever known so wouldn't become unsettled or believe I'd leave due to it.
Although I do know that they don't discipline and have him co-sleep with his gran going to bed at 9pm with him because "they don't want him upset and to stop coming" which obviously doesn't help but I don't think is the real issue due to how long this has been going on.

Get another single bed in his room and stay with him until he grows out of it. My boys both have asd and have never needed much sleep and needed me until they were about ten when they could just sit up in bed put their headphones on and watch a dvd or listen to music without disturbing me. It will pass but he does not sound trainable. Both my boys were in top group at school they just did not need the sleep and they wanted their mum. I set up their bed so when they woke me up I said watch telly mummy needs to sleep and they got used to doing it on their own and then one day didn't need me. Take the baby in with you.

The rabbit book really helped my friend's son and he had anxiety at night time. So defo worth a try.

At 6 my friend recommended being a bit sneaky about how you read it because the book has directions for the parent to yawn etc written in and she felt if her son knew she was putting it on it wouldn't have worked as well. So she read it but didn't let him see the pages at the same time. Read through it alone before you show it to him.

I have a son with aspergers and i have to say your lad does sound as thougb he might have some extra needs going on. Adhd anxiety and inability to process emotions are common.
I would ask for a referral if i was you

My DD (7.5 and probably ADHD) has never needed sleep. Stopped napping during the day at 6 months and never napped again. Is non-stop go all day at school, then has after-school clubs, dance classes, a long commute and despite getting up at 6.30am and never going to bed before midnight, unless she's ill, she's still going strong.

The only things that have worked for us were to co-sleep until she was 5 (then moved out with no problems at all) and to have no battles over bedtime of any sort. After 9pm is Parents Time and so she has to find something quiet to do - Lego, drawing, books etc and not expect to be entertained.

There is no point exhausting yourself physically and emotionally battling a non-sleeping child.

You will probably get a billion people telling you to try x, y and z - some will be extremely rude about your parenting skills and assure you that if only you try what they did then your child would sleep. Ignore them... some children just do not require a lot of sleep - we had professional help and nothing they suggested worked.

We did get her a tablet when she was 5 - fitted with a Twilight filter to remove the blue light issues, and that is useful when we want to watch unsuitable for a 7 year-old TV!

OP you have my total sympathy, it all sounds like an absolute nightmare for you - I think you deserve a medal for coping this well so far.

I am currently sat in the dark on the floor in my DDs bedroom waiting for her to go to sleep as she has recently started getting separation anxiety (since christmas eve would you believe it), and she cries and wails every single time I leave her bedroom. If she wakes up in the middle of the night she cries and comes to wake me and it is much harder to get her back to sleep, she is so grumpy and distressed there is no reasoning with her. It's very difficult to stay calm in those situations when you are tired, and ratty and frustrated. Also you find yourself at a total loss of what to do. I can't sleep on her floor, I know I wouldn't sleep a wink. My husband finds this more difficult to deal with than even I do but then he has to be up at 5.20am for work.

Today I ordered a book online called 'When You Dread Your Bed' which I am hoping will help (sorry if it has been mentioned already), it is a self help book for parents and children to work through together to beat their sleep issues and nearly all the reviews on Amazon are really raving about it with 5 stars. I thought it may be worth a try.

So sorry you are going through this OP.

My DD is like this. She started being scared of everything at about 9 1/2. She's a year older now. She is still the same.

It has just been hideous to live with. We've had CAHMS and everything. Nothing has worked, just nothing. She is a very anxious child anyway.

We've given up and put a mattress in our room. It wasn't what we wanted but we couldn't carry on with no sleep and her crying all night. Like your son she won't talk about it even though we tried everything to make her do so.

Fwiw, l was terrified of sleeping on my own until l was about 12. I only felt safe if l slept with my mum. It also turns out that dh's sister is the same, so perhaps it is inherited. Your doctor sounds crap saying it's not having any detrimental effect. Children get much much more active and wound up with lack of sleep.

I would advise to do the mattress thing. There will be people saying you are making a rod for your own back, but ultimately it's about about surviving .

My gp was lovely and referred us straight away. It's interesting that you say he doesn't like being alone and will seek you. This is just what my DD does too.

Again my DD is wonderful at school, but a ball of horrendous anxiety at home. When CHAMS got the school involved they were just aghast that such a quiet hardworking child was like this. Her desire for control at home is pretty high, but she complies at school. The school need to know what's going on though.

In her assessment DD scored really high on social skills and interaction, so she doesn't have any ASD. But they did say they high anxiety levels were similar to those who had ASD.

Push your crap doctor for a referral. Hth

One thing to try if he wakes up at the same time every night is, when you go to bed, moving the cover/gently stirring him without waking him up to try and shift him in the sleep cycle. No miracle cure, it seemed to work with DS although we want back to someone sleeping with DS as he would still wake up, just later in the night.

The answer is obvious, isn't it: he wants to be with you.

The more you deny him that, the more clingy he will get. This is how IT works.

Just give him what he wants unconditionally for as long as he needs and eventually he will regulate himself.

Every other strategy is forcing things in one direction or another and the consequences are psychological damage on some level.

So, OP, snuggle comfy in bed with your biggest treasure and ennoy these precious moments. The stress you experience rignt now is mostly self inflicted.

I would also completely ban him from watching any scary movies.
Beware, OP, as this may be the reason why he always wants you around.
We learned this the hard way when my brother was refusing to even go to the toilet alone up until age 10+. When asked why, he finally admitted being scared because he imagines the scary stuff seen in movies might happen in real life.
And I am not talking horror movies, just normal karate style films!

I'm with Googlebabe. Having lived through this, your ds needs you at night to feel secure. My DD does. It drives us round the twist, but l can't leave her alone crying with fear. She settles fine in our room. There is a difference between a naughty willfull child and a highly anxious one. Boundaries will work with the former but will not work with the latter.

My DD has never been able to self sooth either.

Well, it only took 1 hour tonight ... after he refused to read the books and we jumped straight to the me sitting in the hall, no talking, while I worked away. Obviously me sitting there meant that he wasn't upset, however it still meant that, despite him being at the brink of dropping off, he refuses to go to sleep and keeps trying to reassure himself that I'm still there.

I don't deny him my company ... as I've said I can be sat in his room beside him and he'll still take up to an hour to sleep, without the fuss, and then wake 3-4 times a night (even while cuddling him to sleep and trying to co-sleep).
If I try to leave, even for 5 minutes, then the world ends. It's gotten to the point where I have genuinely almost wet myself because of the impact leaving him has, even for that short period of time. I cannot give him my attention, unconditionally, for as long as he needs. I need to pee. I need to eat. I need to shower. I need to be in a position that doesn't hurt my already weakened pelvic ligaments. I will, soon, need to tend to a baby.

The issues are that he can't self-settle/self-soothe and does not have healthy sleeping habits as a result; however, this seems to stem from anxiety that is around 24/7 but magnified at bed time.

Yes I could just sit with him every night and ignore it, but what good is that doing my son in the long run? That is merely brushing the issues under the carpet.

Don't worry, he only watches Barbie, The Gabby Douglas Story and some other bloody gymnastics film.
Sometimes Little Lunch and Sam and Cat get thrown in there too. He isn't a big TV fan.

Hi OP. Sounds similar to my DD (9) in so many ways. I would ask the gp and ask to be referred to a specialist for anxiety. You may need to insist if they don't see the urgency. I've also just had a baby and DD's sleep got worse during my pregnancy, waking 1-2 times a night. She has adjusted remarkably well to the new addition and still wakes, but gets into her sister's bed instead! It wasn't as bad as I had feared.

emoji she has been referred for assessment too. Good social interaction and good at school, but has always had separation issues and high anxiety. She refuses nearly all instructions/requests at home and has daily meltdowns. I'm thinking PDA (pathological demand avoidance)... Is this something you've looked at?

sailor haha, they also watch the same tv programmes :) (I hate sam and cat!!)

My DD (8.5) could basically be your son! Picking at skin round nails, anxious to the point of extreme stress and resulting meltdowns, dislikes the dark, dislikes being left alone, also performs very well at school, is miles ahead with reading and writing and maths, has a brain filled with random facts and is obsessively interested in the most bizarre things - currently her favourite programme on netflix is horrible histories. Will stay awake for hours and hours, will happily be awake until 11/midnight most nights. Gets up in the night and wanders around, wakes early and disturbs her younger sister.
Luckily we had a very understanding GP who referred us immediately to the Paediatrician and she was diagnosed ADHD/ASD in class Reception - I had my concerns from age 2 i would say. She has Melatonin at bedtime, prescribed by the Paed and also two separate medications during the day for the ADHD & Autism. She has a white noise machine on continually allllllllll night - she prefers the rainforest noises she says - and a very bright nightlight at the bottom of her bed. And she's allowed an hour of lego time / reading before bed, quietly in her room every night. This isn't perfect, but she will normally be asleep by about 930pm.
My point is - go back to the GP and ask for a referral to a paediatrician. Keep a diary of the next two weeks bedtime issues and show the GP, lay it on thick, explain how long you have put up with this for. You all need some help!

bobbinpop the voice of the red head (I can't remember which) makes me want to tear my own ears off.

Co-sleep.

No need to go to bed too early at first. Get into a routine and you can bring the time forward. When he's asleep, get up and get on with your evening, go back to bed if he wakes.

We had the same problem. We bought a SuperKing bed and co-slept until my daughter was ready for her own room. That happened naturally for her just before she turned 10. She made the move.

My user name is not SleepOhHowIMissYou for no good reason. Give it a go, try it for a week and be led by what your son needs. Conventional didn't work for us and it's driving you to your wits end, you've nothing to lose. Co-sleeping is not defeat, you're not 'giving in', it's a solution and may be the answer for you.

Good luck!

Can you just forget 'bedtime' for a little while? I was so hung up on routine and bedtimes/mealtimes etc with my first two but with baby number 4 (he had a tricky start) I didn't want him out of my sight and I'm far more chilled. Maybe consider just letting him sit with you, nature programmes on the TV/reading/quiet games (we play dominoes, some Orchard toys games etc )then when you go up (maybe earlier than normal, 9:30?) he comes up with you, you both get ready for bed and either stay in his bed, no conversation just give him a book, you read a book and he'll drift off. Then when he's regained his confidence around bedtimes you can slowly start to separate yourself again. Sometimes it's just not worth the battle. Always remember he's your baby, you're his mum. You are perfect for each other, no matter what.

Co-sleeping has already been tried in our house. It does stop the fuss but doesn't stop the hour or so of getting to sleep and 3-4 wakings each night.
Co-sleeping is also not suitable atm due to DS moving as close to me as possible, resulting in poor sleep and, if he wriggles about, quite a few pops to the stomach. We also have no room for an additional bed/cot bed etc. in our room.

Have yo tried a weighted blanket? Although as others have said you need a referral to cahms and possibly melatonin...some people just don't produce enough.
My ds didn't sleep through the night until she was 5, and even then it was co sleeping after a 13 hour flight. Gp said similar to your but I asked to see another gp and they referred us to a sleep clinic. A year in she still goes through periods of frequent waking and needs much less sleep than both myself and my ds who has always been a brilliant sleeper.

How do you feel about this evening overall. Was it an hour to settle without tantrums but you staying in sight? If you can carry on with a routine that keeps everyone calm at least, it might help break the pattern. It might not be the total change you're hoping for, but incremental improvements are a win. I found breaking the cycle of shouting, screaming and tears really helped. It can still take DS1 an hour to settle but at least now it's calm and he stays in bed.