Not cut out to be a mother

[sailorcherries]

Posting here for traffic, at my wits end.

My DS is 6 and has never slept through the night. Not once. He is also the worst self soother in the world.

During the day he is happy to sit upstairs/downstairs on his own while I potter about but at night time WWIII breaks out regularly.

Despite trying everything (sit in his room and gradually move out the door; sit in my room and return him reassuringly; sit in my room and return him without speaking etc) he will refuse to sleep. He cries, gets out of bed, refuses to talk, scratches himself and makes himself sick. I have tried for months and nothing works. He is upset, I get frustrated and upset - I don't smack etc but let him know his behaviour is not acceptable and tell him that there is consequences the next day (tv time/games cancelled, grounded etc).
In the end I end up sitting near his door and he then falls asleep; after 2 hours of screaming and tantrums. If I sit near his door to begin with he will be quiet but won't settle for at least an hour.

Regardless of when he goes to bed he will wake 3-4 times for no apparent reason, come and find me, and then wake me to take him to bed.

I finally went to the dr and his suggestion was that DS didn't need as much sleep (as nothing suffers through lack of it) and to put him to bed later. This has not addressed the issues at bed time whatsoever.

What is wrong with me? Am I that shit a parent that I can't get the basics right? Will I fuck it up with the next? Is there something wrong with my DS? What the bloody hell do I do? Bed time brings me to tears every single night.

My dd, 6, still needs me to be there when she wakes in the night and takes ages to fall asleep. We share a double bed and dh has a different bed. When ds was born, dd shared with dh. I'm a pretty rubbish sleeper and I think she's inherited it. I think it's not that uncommon to still not be a great sleeper, you just don't hear about it!

DS has always been a non sleeper. Once I stopped worrying/stressing/trying to force sleep he got much better. He is now 12 and currently building Lego.
What worked for me was allowing him to choose an activity to do because he was now a 'big boy' (about 6) and could play quietly. He chose Lego so would play. Would quite often come upstairs and he would be asleep on the floor with said Lego half built. Because I was less stressed so was he. What you need to do is make bedtime smoother - the dr is right some kids just don't need as much sleep. DS has a wild Imagination (too set English!) and Lego helped him focus this more

Gp was as useful as a chocolate teapot.

He is a very active wee boy and does a lot of different classes, but that doesn't tire him.

As I've said he cannot express his feelings well and often closes up or gets angry when asked about these things. He'll gladly sit and talk for hours about other topics (the titanic and Australia are a favourite just now) but cannot open up about how he feels.

See if you have a sleep clinic near you or get a ref from your gp they can help massively

purplesky I agree that DS doesn't need as much sleep and, if we are up later (NYE for example) he will tire out himself. However, if the normal day to day he gets tired, his entire body screams exhausted, but he still refuses to sleep and acts out as a result. When I know he genuinely isn't tired I don't even attempt to put him near bed.

I'm sorry your going through this OP. I was a terrible sleeper from a young age-,had some anxiety issues that weren't addressed but mostly I just couldn't sleep. I only really got better when I was at school- I went to bed and read for ages or practised gymnastics on my bed! Now my 16 mo DD seems to be the same: she seemed tired at 7pm so we settled her down in our bed- she makes herself sick if put in the cot. She fell asleep for 20 mins at 8.30 then DS accidentally woke her up and that was her until nearly 11pm. I've no advice but to see the GP and beg for help. Although you're nervous about how he will be when the new baby comes, it may be that things may well improve. If I remember correctly I think my bedtime behaviour did improve a bit with the birth of my wee sister. .

He sounds like a sweet boy and you also have done very thing you could be expected to. This is not his fault or yours. I don't have dc but I do have anxiety and sleep issues which began when I was very young. I still really struggle with sleep.

What happens if he is alone at night, but without any pressure to sleep, so kind of like in the daytime. He could clean teeth etc and his bed be there ready, but he is also free to play in the room, use iPad etc and just lie down if tired. Would the fact that other people were asleep worry him? Does he have any strategies in place about what he can do if he wakes in the night before disturbing you? Also, what do think would happen if he was very tired in the day, would he sleep better for a couple of hours then or would he still need you there?

Poor you ..... if I were you I would stop focusing on the sleep ... it seems to me that the issue is not him not sleeping , but not be able to leave you to rest if he doesn't want to ... Can you take the pressure off and talk about ways he could stay in his room playing / reading / watching DVD / listening to a story book at night time ... He may really not need more sleep and just not like being alone ... or what do you think about having a bed in your room for him ? It's not what every one wants but I think you need to either focus on sleep at any cost - in which case try co sleeping ... Or focus attention on hanging out in your room at night without mummmy .... good luck I feel for you . If you can afford sleek clinic sounds like a great idea .

Have you tried melatonin?

What was he like as a toddler has he always been like this. My 22 month old will not sleep unless I am near him. My other 3 children weren't like that I've gone wrong some where.

Sounds silly but I just thought about a meditation app, it helps me relax when my mind is whizzing

You are not failing at anything. Some kids are just appalling sleepers.
I had two.. out of four. The amazement when no 2 just went to bed and slept was unreal because no 1 never settled. In the end we gave up trying to put her to bed, and used to let her crash on the sofa or simply went to bed (in our bed) with us. She nearly broke us!
Incidentally she was very bright (now a junior doctor who copes with the horrendous hours well strangely enough) and never suffered at school...it was us who suffered!
No 4 is the same and while now a teen (with autism) never settles before 2-3 am. I don't think I have ever had an unbroken night in 25 years....

BUT no1 did eventually settle..I think she was about 8 when she finally slept in her own bed or slept with her sister (who can sleep thro anything) She was an anxious child and needed physical contact. She shared a room until she left for University and she really struggled at first when she was in a room without someone else sleeping near her... even at 18 she really missed having her sister next to her.
We tried everything... sleep clinic, meds, rapid returns... nothing worked, and in the end we gave in, slept when she did.
I am still sane....just!

My middle two have always slept like logs so it was nothing we did differently, it was just how she (and her youngest brother) is!

If the co-sleeping solved the aggravation I would just let him sleep with you and read if he's not tired. If he's in bed reading he will fall asleep if he needs to. He won't still be wanting to sleep in your bed when he's a teenager.

I don't think you should rule out further investigation for some level of ASD. The sleep disturbances, special interests and talking at length about them, the anxiety, lack of capacity to express and regulate emotions etc are common aspects of ASD. In my sons case anyway. If his brain is working in a much different way the using standard parenting techniques will not work. If this is the underlying cause then you would be better equipped to look at appropriate strategies. Maybe try posting on the SN Children board on here?

I know several children with ASD who sleep only 4 or 5 hrs a night and need melatonin to even get to sleep for that short period. Sleep is one of our biggest challenges too with our DS.

Find a new GP. Having a supportive doctor makes a huge difference.

oops pressed post too soon.

DS has ASD and will be 4 in Feb. The little guy has a million and one issues with sleep. It has taken some of the best brains in the medical world to help figure out how to get the kids to sleep. Now that it has been figured out his behaviour has improved and he is making great strides.

You need a GP who is much more supportive because its a long long road you, your son and your family are on.

Like PurpleSky, I have stopped trying to actively get my son to sleep. He reads usually, but as long as he is doing something in his bedroom that doesn't involve a screen and is quiet, he is free to do whatever helps. Usually, he is sleeping by about midnight, (he's now twelve, but this has been going on for years) though I don't always check as sometimes I go to bed early myself. Like your son, he doesn't seem to suffer at school due to the late nights. I generally let him get on with it, and if he wakes, he is allowed to read then too. If he tries to sleep and can't it just worries him.

If I can't sleep myself, I often get up and do something, so I allow my son the same freedom. It's horrible, lying in bed worrying that you can't get to sleep. It stops you sleeping. The ultimate vicious cycle.

You are clearly having a really tough time. You need sleep, to be able to support your son in his sleep. So accept offers of the odd sleepover, take afternoon naps if you can. Don't feel guilty, it's a basic human need, even more so being pregnant.

Sounds very similar to my son. His Paediatrician prescribed melatonin, and it was like a miracle. No more 3 hours of fidgeting, non stop chatter, wriggling around at bedtime. For the first time in his life, he hugged his teddy, put head on pillow and snuggled down. Never ever seen that before.

I still stay with him until he's asleep, but it's a much shorter time. He does still wake during the night- melatonin only helps with getting off to sleep- but they are getting less, and briefer. We are both less tired, and more able to deal with the other challenges in parenting and life.

I hear you though. It is really hard. And being permanently exhausted makes everything much more fraught.

Melatonin might not be the answer for your son, but it could be worth a try. Like you, we had tried all the other options I could think of.

My boy has a very busy active analytical brain that doesn't shut down easily at pyjama time. We are investigating ASD/ADHD type issues too. Nothing certain as yet.

Push to see a Paed, or sleep clinic. GPs often won't initiate melatonin prescribing, because it is very expensive, but worth its weight in gold in our household!

Take care, and good luck.

What a terrible situation. You must be exhausted. . What about you leave a tv on for him with a kids DVD on loop.

I've had similar with my eldest who is also very bright and pretty clingy.

Gave up on bedtime completely. Let him watch DVDs, read, play Lego,. Did co sleeping. It sorted itself out in the sense that I stopped losing my marbles.

Good luck.

Can you get him assessed by a psychiatrist? It's definitely worth chasing up the ASD/ADHD niggle. At least then you'd know. If GP won't refer you could go private if you can afford to.

Does he have a teddy. And does he like story tapes.
I was an anxious child and both those things helped me deal with bedtime.

ASD alarm bells ringing for me too here OP. Get a new GP or insist on a paeds referral.
And cosleep for the time being to get rest and for him to have reassurance. iPad or kindlr in bed of that means you can get to sleep before him. Needs must.

One of mine was like this. In the end, she just came to bed with us and slept in our bed ( in a cot with the side down but she was younger). Will probably get criticism I know but sleep and harmony are so important. Eventually she moved back into her own room at her own pace.
Is there room in your bedroom to put his bed along side yours?