Not cut out to be a mother

[sailorcherries]

Posting here for traffic, at my wits end.

My DS is 6 and has never slept through the night. Not once. He is also the worst self soother in the world.

During the day he is happy to sit upstairs/downstairs on his own while I potter about but at night time WWIII breaks out regularly.

Despite trying everything (sit in his room and gradually move out the door; sit in my room and return him reassuringly; sit in my room and return him without speaking etc) he will refuse to sleep. He cries, gets out of bed, refuses to talk, scratches himself and makes himself sick. I have tried for months and nothing works. He is upset, I get frustrated and upset - I don't smack etc but let him know his behaviour is not acceptable and tell him that there is consequences the next day (tv time/games cancelled, grounded etc).
In the end I end up sitting near his door and he then falls asleep; after 2 hours of screaming and tantrums. If I sit near his door to begin with he will be quiet but won't settle for at least an hour.

Regardless of when he goes to bed he will wake 3-4 times for no apparent reason, come and find me, and then wake me to take him to bed.

I finally went to the dr and his suggestion was that DS didn't need as much sleep (as nothing suffers through lack of it) and to put him to bed later. This has not addressed the issues at bed time whatsoever.

What is wrong with me? Am I that shit a parent that I can't get the basics right? Will I fuck it up with the next? Is there something wrong with my DS? What the bloody hell do I do? Bed time brings me to tears every single night.

DS was terrible (root cause for him was separation anxiety)

What worked for us and he was about 6 at this stage was-

He knew he could come into my bed for cuddles in the middle of the night and I wouldn't kick him out

Bedtime routine, story in my bed with cuddles, then tucked into his with his favourite teddys, having a wheat bear heated so his bed was warm and he had something warm to hug and star charts with a much wanted reward at the end of 7 in a row full nights in his own bed all night

Once we had the 7 nights he still disturbed but it was much less and would either be settle back in his own bed himself after a cuddle or if he did have a nightmare I would let him co-sleep between me and DH

I've not read the full thread but this is awful and disrupted sleep breaks down all your higher level functioning - judgement, decision making, optimism. You must be feeling really low.
I recommend getting more insistent at getting professional support. It sounds like you've tried lots of techniques already. Note thrm all down including impact and how long you tried them for. You need consistency with sleep interventions and that's hard to do if you're sleep deprived.
I'm interested in your son being quirky. My dd has asd and a severe learning disability. This manifests in part as awful sleep patterns. She's clearly severely disabled and we get support from camhs. Much of that is for sleep. She's been on melatonin for years. It needs to build up and be supported by good sleep routines but apart from that it helps her go to sleep and stay asleep most of the time. People with asd have different neurology and that can mean intense sleep issues. Your gp is being pants to say it doesn't impact him. How csn you know that if you've never seen him on more sleep.
Also if it's genuinely that your son doesn't need any more sleep then you should be able to develop things he csn do at night on his own while you sleep. I'd be tempted to present the clingiNess at night etc as a behavioural issue and try to see a camhs psych. Medication saved my sanity. And my dd is so much better now that she doesn't spend her life fighting sleep. She used to spend a lot of time on self injurious behaviours. These only come back if she has a spell of poor sleep. Which come back every 6-8 weeks - which is a thing according to psych. Tackling this with proper professional support made a huge difference in seeing some success.

You cannot be expected to carry on like this..your doctor must refer you to Cambs/further help...it sounds like an attachment issue resulting in extreme anxiety.neither you nor him should be left to cope alone with this....keep a diary day and night,moods ,food,sleep,screaming...just incase a pattern emerges while you wait for help.

It must be very hard for you. Our oldest was a very poor sleeper - not a single night through until at least 1 years old. All 5 regularly woke every single night until about 4 or 5. Some children are just like that.

In fact the Japanese think we are very cruel because we don't sleep with our children - so certainly different cultures have different takes on these things.

We tried not to have much co sleeping however as I could never properly sleep with a child next to me. However it works for hundreds of thousands of people across the planet.

If I were faced with this while waiting for appointments I would simply not put him to bed at all,I would forget bedtime,leave him up with me and co sleep ,both of you going to bed at 10 pm would be ok.sleep is the most important thing,you can't function without it...plus when baby comes your going to be up feeding anyway,if he's up as well so be it

Just read lasthe few posts on the thread and would push even more strongly on melatonin and camhs input. Especially also the slow release melatonin. It's revelatory to see someone whose brain can't go to sleep the way brains usually do start to do so. It will also over time unravel the understandable anxiety you both have built up around bedtime. Don't feel bad about that op it's not like you xsn just relax yourself out of feeling anxious when something you really need continually fails to happen. When we have a relapse period of bad sleep I get panic struck with the trauma of remembering how bad it was before melatonin and how horrible desperate I felt about never getting reliable sleep.

The OP said that co sleeping just stops the screaming/throwing up though (not 'just' really I guess!) he still takes hours to settle and wakes up frequently, presumably waking her too. It might not feel like a great long term solution for her especially as I'm assuming it's not a possibility when the baby arrives in a few months especially if she plans to feed the baby in bed or co-sleep. I really think she needs professional support.

When ds was at nursery he would get up about 4 in the morning. He come to me and ask if he could watch his favourite films I would say yes whilst still being fast asleep then I would get up 3 hours later. I taught him how to operate the video so he didn't need any input from me. At this point he was going to bed at around midnight.

Trying to do what others were doing putting there 2 year olds to bed at 6.30pm and they were asleep by 7pm was never going to work. Mine were both bouncing off the walls at that time.

Please go back to the GP, write everything you've already tried down and just say you are physically/mentally exhausted and at the end of your tether. You NEED a referral to CAMHS as you've other concerns also.

You can also get a referral via the school nurse.

Also make a point of mentioning all of the above to your midwife on your next antenatal appointment.

In the mean time might I suggest leaving some boring radio station on low volume in the background. I've started to do this as my daughter (19 month) wakes 3-4 times during the night. She hasn't for the past four nights.

He sounds like he could have Asperger's/high functioning autism. I have read that this can cause a deficit in melatonin but don't know anymore about it.

What sometimes helps for us at bedtime is white noise app (I like the waves sound), routine but not too much going on (story but no bath, no screen time 1 hour before sleep) and DS sleeps next to his dad or me (although we can go out once he is asleep, we need to come back or he'll wake up during the night).
Sometimes DS keeps whispering about obssessive thoughts, I try to get him out of it by talking about what he loves most and thinking about that instead (I am the same and found it worked for me).
That's a very recent realisation but it's very likely we are an Asperger's family (DH, DS and I). Your DS certainly has a lot of common points with mine, even down to the scratching (DS scratches his wrist or arm) and not wanting to be alone.

Melatonin is great.

Unfortunately, here in the UK, it is a pretty expensive drug for Drs. to prescribe (frustrating when it's so cheap and available OTC in the US).

But it's a game changer if you can get hold of it.

In the meantime, I used to put a camp bed up at the foot of mine - children waking in the night could settle themselves in there, rather than me having to wait up in their room. I've co slept too, but this worked better for my super wriggly ones.

I also changed my own outlook.

I used to believe that children must sleep, that I must stay awake until my children were asleep, and that bedtimes should be set in stone.

Then I had my non-sleeper. And now I've revised that massively - my expectations of night time are that I get to sleep, ideally as much sleep as I need. And that everyone else is safe.

So instead of working on "you need to sleep," we worked on "you need to be quiet." Instead of bedtime, we worked on grownup time (the point at which I stop being available for entertainment purposes; sleep or don't sleep, but if you're downstairs with me you need to be entertaining yourself quietly not needing my full attention).

It helped. A lot.

Oh - and - reassurance for the future maybe? My non sleeper was massively better overnight once we had small noisy baby. Because they could hear me bustling about, so didn't feel the need to get up and check I was still around.

My 5 year old is similar,

We've taken to putting his bed in our room and converting his room into a study. We also allow his iPad in bed to watch cartoons. I have agreed to sit in the room for only half an hour.

Then he can watch what he likes, this has reduced the stress some what, he still screams and begs and pleads to not go but we are very firm in that he does go,

9 times out of 10 he falls asleep while relaxed watching cartoons. I know it isn't ideal and is completely against all the recommendations, but we needed sleep and had to do what was necessary

This must be so difficult for you. There has been loads of advice so I don't really have much to add. What I would say though is that the night time waking's are nothing surprising given that he is unable to settle himself to sleep. We all wake and stir during the night particularly as we move from one sleep stage to another but most times we roll over and go back to sleep without even remembering in the morning but for your son he is not able to self soothe back to sleep it is a skill he has not yet mastered so needs you to do that for him in the middle of the night just like he does when he goes to bed initially. I think just concentrate on helping him develop this skill to self soothe at bedtime and once this is mastered the night time waking's will reduce.

You have tried so much at this stage that I do think it is time for external help. Your gp is less then useless so you may have to go privately to a sleep expert or a sleep trainer that will come into your home and work on this with you.
As others have suggested it could be part of something else with your son so no harm looking for a referral to cahms to see whether there is anything else going on for him. You have said your son does not need much sleep but maybe he does and maybe he is constantly sleep deprived and therefore too wired at bedtime to relax and drop asleep. Best of luck with it all and I hope everything goes well with your new baby

Try audiable 30 day free trial there are some sleep inducing kids books and some relaxation ones too and its not gonna cost you anything as its a free trial

Very bright, high anxiety, trouble sleeping, loves to talk about factual subjects but struggles with emotional communication. Hmmm. This site is for parents with SEN kids but their sleep section is useful for all parents: http://w3.cerebra.org.uk/practical-help/difficulty-sleeping-alone-or-night-waking/. For my DS, playing to sleep in his bed with the door open and a light on in hallway, white noise app on a hidden iPad and making sure things are the same through the night as when he falls asleep, e.g. don't shut the door or turn the hallway light off have been a massive help. I would also check out their parents guide on anxiety and focus on reducing that - a similar gentle routine every night, same time and some visual communication that daytime is finished and nighttime is starting to prepare him well. We use a gro clock at lights out, but we also have a routine around finishing playing etc and going upstairs which gives him a minute or two to get used to the transition. Let go of your fantasies of a 7-7 child who goes by the rules, go with what works for him. It's important you get as much rest as possible. Good luck

I round try melatonin-you can either get it prescribed or buy it online from a pharmacy abroad-it's otc in many countries but the UK. It wont work immediatley, it take 3-4 days to see if it will have any effect but it doesn't have any side effects so its worth a try imo.

I was a terrible sleeper eventually parents put a camp bed at the end of their bed and when I woke I would go and get in it - every night until I was about 11!! My own ds was dreadful I would put him in his cot and then lie on the bed in order to keep him there I would be asleep and then wake to him stood up looking at me😂 In order to get him to nap during the day it was either a hair dryer or vacuum cleaner turned on outside the room. Once he could climb out of the cot he went in his own bed and then came in to my bed in the middle of the night every night until he was about 10 .... not an issue for me as a single mum! You just have to do whatever you can to get crucial sleep

Thanks everyone. I'm going to pop to the shops today and get a few 'bedtime only' books. Last night he settled for about 15 minutes with a book while I was in my room. Then I took the book off him, big mistake!

His other little quirks are quite odd and some only manifest themselves in the house.

• he asks before going to the toilet, every single time.
• he must be seated next to me, as close as humanly possible, at all times
• he has a habit of sratching or picking at the skin around his fingers
• he cannot be alone (even now I'm upstairs to make the beds and he has followed me up and is stood in my room with a remote control car)
• up until just recently he would only wear joggies because, and I quote "you can't do the splits in jeans"
• he will only wear one pair of shoes until their death and has a meltdown at the thought/prospect of wearing others
• he has a brilliant memory and can recall word for word what others have said long after they've said it (non consequential things) as well as random facts (for example did I know that if the titanic had not got rid of some life boats then people would have lived!? He's never seen the titanic!)
• he finds it hard to make relationships with males and can't communicate with them

I could go on but I'm sure you get the jist, he isn't like other kids I know (I teach) but he also doesn't seem any different to some others.

He's sitting quite the thing on my bedroom floor playing with his car and singing but won't leave to go to even his room.

As for co-sleeping unfortunately it isn't an option for us.
DS will squash himself as close to me as possible and wriggles and kicks about. It stops me sleeping even more so because I physically can't get comfy.

An extra bed or his bed isn't going to work, as there is no room to pop them in :( I did co-sleep when I was single but even then he was awake until 12/1 and that was at 2 years old!

I think you should also consider / Google obstructive sleep aponea, and if any of it rings bells, ask your GP to refer you to ENT. One of my DSs had this, and it wasn't picked up until he was almost 5. He was a horrendous sleeper (waking many times a night), and also had trouble getting to sleep at bedtime and would try all sorts of avoidance techniques. Sleep, and avoiding it, had just become a "thing" for him, as I had tried many strategies and none had worked. His daytime behaviour was also erratic (because he was so exhausted, but I hadn't made the connection). Once we saw ENT they diagnosed this very quickly, he had his tonsils and adenoids removed, and it's made the world of difference (bedtime is still not perfect - old habits die hard - but he sleeps through most nights and is far better during the day).

I would leave him with a stack of books and let him read as long as he wants. I often used to fall asleep with a book in my hand as a child and my DC are the same. Having a sibling might also help once the sibling is older if they can share a room. Some of my DC share rooms and won't go to bed alone but if they can see their sibling they're fine.

My 7 year old still likes/needs company to fall asleep and invariably gets into our bed in the night.

This was not how I was brought up and not how I planned to parent but is something he seems to need. All kids are different! So please don't beat yourself up about it.

One of the things that helped for us since he mastered reading properly is to tuck him up with a book for half an hour to an hour before going in to snuggle him to sleep (my husband does this as I am tied up with the breastfeeding 2 year old). He settles quicker then as he's tired enough.

I have nothing to add to all the advice and support on this thread but just wanted to add that I was you a few years ago.
I didn't know about mums net then so we struggled through I read a lot of books sitting at dds bedroom door, we coslept a bit either her in our bed or me in hers interspersed with periods of hell where we tried some way of solving it.
Dd is 10 now. I can now see she has a lot of AS traits which I wish I had known more about in the past.
She still doesn't really sleep but she manages it herself now. She will just lie quietly (having a clock has helped as she likes to keep tabs on when she wakes ) if it is nearly morning she might put on a light and read until we wake up. If she has a particularly bad night she might still come and ask me to join her for a cuddle, which to be honest now we have found our way is no longer a chore but something I quite cherish as she is growing so fast I know one of them will be the last.
Anyway you are not alone but there is light at the end of the tunnel and even the most difficult sleepers find their own way.

It sounds so awful for both of you. I'm sorry I don't have any good advice. ASMR videos (eg from GentleWhispering) on YouTube help me and millions to get to sleep, but I guess they're not a kid thing...

Out of interest, because I am not a parent myself so don't know: what happens if you explain to your DS how exhausted you are and how tired it makes you to be woken up in the night? I'm guessing his is a no no as it's not something I ever see suggested.

DD1 was the same and I now wish I had been told then, what I now know. Stop trying to make your DS sleeps to the ' normal' routine and get it out of your head that unless he does then that means you're a bad mother.
Even at 10 my DD sleeps 4-6 hrs a night.
When u are a first time mother your expectations are that your baby will do all the things the books say. Throw away the book and listen to your instincts. If its not causing him issues then there is no reason to worry.
Do what you need to do even if that's letting him into your bed so you get your sleep