Not cut out to be a mother

[sailorcherries]

Posting here for traffic, at my wits end.

My DS is 6 and has never slept through the night. Not once. He is also the worst self soother in the world.

During the day he is happy to sit upstairs/downstairs on his own while I potter about but at night time WWIII breaks out regularly.

Despite trying everything (sit in his room and gradually move out the door; sit in my room and return him reassuringly; sit in my room and return him without speaking etc) he will refuse to sleep. He cries, gets out of bed, refuses to talk, scratches himself and makes himself sick. I have tried for months and nothing works. He is upset, I get frustrated and upset - I don't smack etc but let him know his behaviour is not acceptable and tell him that there is consequences the next day (tv time/games cancelled, grounded etc).
In the end I end up sitting near his door and he then falls asleep; after 2 hours of screaming and tantrums. If I sit near his door to begin with he will be quiet but won't settle for at least an hour.

Regardless of when he goes to bed he will wake 3-4 times for no apparent reason, come and find me, and then wake me to take him to bed.

I finally went to the dr and his suggestion was that DS didn't need as much sleep (as nothing suffers through lack of it) and to put him to bed later. This has not addressed the issues at bed time whatsoever.

What is wrong with me? Am I that shit a parent that I can't get the basics right? Will I fuck it up with the next? Is there something wrong with my DS? What the bloody hell do I do? Bed time brings me to tears every single night.

Oh, and I now do the "I'll be back up in 5/10 minutes to check you". He's usually asleep.

Sorry I've probably run away with my own experiences. Like I said my dd is v disabled and in her case I found the mainstream advice depressing. It may well be helpful in your case op.

I think I'd do bedtime and then reinforce an explanation earlier in the day that it is now time for him to be asleep and that you aren't going to talk to him until morning time.

When you talk to him in the day, tell him that night time is when he needs to rest. If he is not tired, he still must lay in his bed as he needs to rest and that you need time alone as a grown up.

Telling you that he is scared etc is just a delaying tactic.

I would sit on a chair in his room with a tablet and earphones and not talk to him at all.

For night wakings, I would refuse to put him back to bed. Take out the light bulbs in most places.

Explain all the rules in the day, write them down together and stick to them at night. He is old enough to do better.

You aren't failing, he's doing very well at being a tinker at bedtime though!

On the holidays, just say no and let him tantrumn it out. Don't give up no matter how difficult he gets, just keep refusing to go to his room (don't let him sleep in yours).

Have you tried the book about the Rabbit who wanted to fall asleep,? (Not got details on me at mo) but it's had great reviews.

Have you ever thought he could be on the autism spectrum? I only ask this as there are a couple of things you've mentioned that may suggest this.
-Having his own little 'quirks'
-Liking set routines (you being their at bedtime being one).
-Highly intelligent
-Not easily able to express himself
-His anxiousness when his routine is changed
It doesn't have to be severe it maybe a mild form but perhaps it maybe worth looking into.

I would refuse but he gets himself in to so much of a state he throws up and/or he makes himself sick.

Cocco - you've just described nearly every child I know. Autism might be an answer but armchair diagnosis is definitely not. Only way to get the diagnosis is through a trained professional

OP - my dd used to make herself sick too when she tantrumned (at 2-3) but I still stuck to my guns. If you're gentle but firm they will get the message soon enough.

DailyFail- I didn't diagnose her child. I said that if in a teaching environment they have suggested that OP's child has been highlighted as having behavioural issues (ADHD) and from what else the OP has described about her child that maybe there could be other reasons for the non settling at night. This would be further backed up by the fact she has extensively implemented a wide range of techniques to soothe her child over the years with little success and benefit.

Furthermore, i am not that ignorant to know that a diagnosis like autism/autism spectrum/or any other developmental delays should be made from behind a computer/ not having viewed a child/and a team of professionals involved. That is why i was suggesting to the OP that she looks into things a little bit more if she feels that her child's behaviour is not 'normal' for an average 6 year old. It would also mean that suggestions from other posters such as letting the child 'cry and then they will learn' may have more of an adverse effect then benefit on the child's psyche.

www.amazon.co.uk/Rabbit-Who-Wants-Fall-Asleep/dp/0241255163#

Sorry daily but your advice of 'sticking to your guns' no matter what is not helpful and also patronising to the OP. Do you not think she's not tried this in the last 6 years? Of course she has but for some children it just does not work and only causes utter distress to all involved.

It infuriates me when reading/talking to people about bedtimes when people just suggest that the parents have not been strict enough/not put in boundaries. The chances are they have no idea.

Actually reading the thread I see she has done it and does not want to do that because it's too distressing. Let's respect that.

He cries, gets out of bed, refuses to talk, scratches himself and makes himself sick.

Does that really describe nearly every child you know, DailyFail?

You may or may not want to consider ASD, but this page on sleep patterns /sleep disorders might be helpful. Whatever your doctor says, this situation is not normal and not sustainable.

I do find this thread interesting to read. I have a 22 month old who won't sleep with out me. I hope that don't continue for to long. Completely different to my other children. My third child sleeps as soon as her head hit the pillow.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

coco my son has never had issues at school, this is why the gp was so quick with dismissing us. His behaviour throughout the day, bar his wee oddities and not wanting to be alone, is perfectly normal for his age. His teachers have no issues. He has no social or communicative delays and academically is possibly a year or two ahead (based on my own experience of where he is with his learning compared to where he should be). This behaviour is solely and consistently when left alone at night time.

daily I don't just chop and change routines like my underwear. I've tried everything for at least 6 months and had no luck with any. My ammunition is running dangerously low :(
As for making himself sick it can be because he cries/coughs so much but he has also been known to stick his fingers down his throat. How and where he learned that is beyond me but he does it from time to time. If he isn't scratching himself he is literally picking the skin off his hands- his thumb pad looked like someone had sliced it with a grater it became that picked at, sore, patchy and red. I won't allow my child to physically harm himself in such ways because of whatever issues are going through his wee head.

shrunken I noticed that book on the tesco website and popped in store to find it today with no luck! Definitely time to order online.

We've spoke at length today about how bed time will be - teeth, story and a cuddle and then he can read alone for 30/45mins while I sit and do work in my room. It'll then be time to put the book down and I'll sit in the hall, in his view. Trying the gradual phase away with "I'm not here but here's something pleasant and quiet to do". He seems okay with it thus far. 3ish hours until we find out for sure.

Sailorcherries- I am glad to hear this and appear to have interpreted your thread/responses incorrectly. But i will say as a medical professional myself that if you feel your GP has been quick to dismiss you then you should go seek a second opinion on any concerns you may have as you are the mother and you will know your child best. Best of luck.

Good luck. It's so so hard when sleep deprivation goes on for so long. It has affected every part of my life

Even if he didn't sleep but lay there the way he does during the day, without getting in to a tizz, I know he'd fall asleep as I'd be in within 10 minutes for reassurance

Sorry OP I can't quite follow that...could you re phrase?

baylisiana during the day he enjoys being in my company and, after 15 minutes or so, will come and seek me out. I.e. he could be watching tv and then realise I'm not there and come find me. He cannot be alone.
At night time if he was as calm as he was during the day and lay in his bed he'd probably fall asleep as I'd be in to check and diffuse the need for getting out of bed and coming to get me.
However, as it stands he turns in to a demented banshee the minute I stand to leave his room during the night, despite being perfectly okay with the same situation about 4 hours earlier! The issue is night time; he definitely has an anxiety of some sort but it manifests itself in such a horrible way (for everyone) at bedtime.

Good luck!

Give the classical music a go (while he's reading) and leave it on all night. Honestly, been there and thought it would NEVER end!

Good luck tonight. Fingers crossed here for you.

ah, I see what you mean. I suppose when he woke up though he would be stressed and looking for you again. I really hope tonight goes well. If doing an activity, having tv or iPad or book or game, helps him be settled in his room without you there then I would not worry too much about getting him to put everything down and try to get to sleep. Sometimes your mind needs the constant distraction. However, if he is only settled doing those things if you are outside the door, that won't be much be much help. Just a though, but would a pet that can be in his room help at all...a goldfish or hamster?

I was a hideous sleeper as a child and still find sleep difficult.

I'd second giving the tv a go, I put the tv on every night to go to sleep. I use the sleep timer, set for 60 or 90 minutes so the to goes off once I'm asleep. I also use podcasts if I wake up in the night/when I am woken by baby ds!

The only way I can describe it for me is that when it's dark and quiet my brain goes into overdrive, I'm thinking about all sorts of different things and I just can't switch myself off. Tv and podcasts give me something to focus on which calms down the thinking. The tv programmes and podcasts are carefully chosen as you can't be invested in them or you stay awake to find out what happens! I often use box sets of programmes I know well like friends or Big Bang theory.

I also slept with a small lamp on all night until I was about 18! I know screens, lights etc are all supposed to make sleep more difficult but it has always worked for me. As you've tried everything else perhaps give it a go? Good luck!

I have skim read.

I honestly think that for now I would give him a mattress on the floor of your room. What matters is that you all get some sleep, break the cycle of him being anxious that you're not there in the night and about having to go to sleep on his own etc. etc.

He isn't happy sleeping alone/being on his own at night. He won't be there still when he's 16.

Whether you let him there short or long term I think you could all do with a break from the "battle".